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Crossword Help Forum
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mullingar

3rd October 2022, 12:34
Sincere apologies. I could offer a few relatively feeble attempts at justification but I value this site too highly to rock the boat. Thanks for your troubles
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jack aubrey

3rd October 2022, 13:03
Through the Covid fog, I managed to get a full grid, a question and 18 extra words, I think I can make two triplets and a possible third (but it’s twins at present). Two synonyms look possibly useful, my current third looks highly unlikely to be of any help. Taking a break via EV, Genius and IQ in the hope that the fog clears (it’s a lot easier now on day 8) and a PDM occurs when I return to the challenge.
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cockie

3rd October 2022, 14:36
The final step is, as always, obvious to some and utterly hidden from others (a category which includes me). My first thought was to put the name of the song, but earlier posts have suggested that that is too simple. I am persuaded that I'm looking for an anagram of two - the obvious two - of the words in the revealed message, but starting at them has not brought illumination. Might a hint (of the form, say, 3 words 3,7,3) be provided? Or if not that, then a gentle pointer of another kind?
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cockie

3rd October 2022, 14:40
Always the way, isn't it! No sooner posted ...
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murky

3rd October 2022, 16:50
Very ambiguous endgame (the answer). I'm 99.9% certain of the intended answer, but it misrepresents the relevant part of the lyrics. I can't see how an alternative answer that goes with every thematic item in the grid can be fairly marked wrong, but no doubt it will be.
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smellyharry

3rd October 2022, 17:08
Thought Ifor's it's a wonderful life puzzle from late last year was one of the highlights of the year.

This, on the other hand, is an absolute monstrosity. There is no consistency between the treatment of the initial 3 answers that change and the final 4. That final change in the grid plus the item to be written below the grid is GWIT to a very high degree.

As can be seen from the forum, a small handful will get lucky and think it's all above board and fair, and everyone else just spends a ton of time trying to figure out what the hell is going on and getting more and more frustrated.

The inconsistency of treatment is clearly because Ifor couldn't get the grid to work if crossing answers to both pieces were treated consistently. If the consistency is going to be this bad it should at least be flagged more clearly.

Rubbish.
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schorley

3rd October 2022, 17:22
Murky (#85) In order to nudge you to 100% certainty over your answer, note that the 5-word question can be read cryptically as well as literally. You'll see.
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acornz

3rd October 2022, 17:24
I agree with you up to a point, Smellyharry, but most of the thematic content works. For example, the 'final answer' to be written under the grid follows the golden rule that once you see what the answer is and why it is, you have no doubt at all that you've got the right answer.

Where I agree with you 100% is that the affected answers are inconsistent. I hadn't really thought about it before, because I was glad to get over the line, but you're absolutely right - some answers weren't affected by changes and some were, and that's a big problem. It would have been better by far to just have three affected entries.
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drxx

3rd October 2022, 19:20
I think all of the highlighted items have undergone some kind of thematic treatment - if they haven't been entered cryptically they've had to be adjusted in line with the text, nothing has just been copied across.
I quite like this varied approach and I think the final grid is pretty neat, considering the amount of detail it contains and the changes it's undergone (I have a slight reservation regarding one action but I wouldn't be surprised to find it could possibly work like this).
What's more, I think the amount of information we're given in the preamble borders on generous - and that's why we can be quite sure of the whole of the endgame (that's something you can't say every week, although it should be).
For me there's another plus - this time it isn't me rubbishing a puzzle most solvers appear to admire}.
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murky

4th October 2022, 06:35
Schorley, Perhaps I should have said I was certain what was intended, though I still think there's a slight ambiguity (v. Smellyharry) because of the misrepresentation of the lyrics. I certainly saw all the possible readings of the question, but I couldn't be more specifc for fear of breaking the newly established rules on this forum regarding endgames.

Though I might have been less extreme in my criticism, I agree with much of what Smellyharry has said. At several points I found myself cursing the puzzle. I agree with him about the final change in the grid. It is not consistent with the wording in the lyrics.
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