Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

I take it back about the third “type” - just got the standard crossword directions bit. Perfectly legitimate, although sneaky. Should’ve known better…

He's one of Monty's.

Flipping heck, of course!

Thanks doc

adeano - I'm afraid I disagree with your "perfectly legitimate" decision! The way it's written, the "standard crossword directions" bit applies to all 11 letters, not some in one way and the rest in another. And as soon as you go with the other way, then you can also highlight one of the thematic types in a different place. This is yet another way too ambiguous highlighting instruction in my opinion!

I meant "another of the thematic types" in that last post.

Hated this. Think I have a full grid although can't understand wordplay to 22d and I don't have an answer for 15d, but only one word seems to fit my final grid so I'm going with that.

Have the two easy types but can't see the third, but having read the comments it's obviously ridiculous so I'm giving up, after wasting an hour grid staring. First defeat for 2 years.

Agree with the comment that the sneaky bit doesn't work as 2 of the things to be highlighted are in the grid and only one is sneaky.

22d has an extra letter in the wordplay: 4-letter ancient (as in no longer used) admiral's ship, with the first letter extra, around 3-letter sound (noise.) 15d also has an extra letter in the wordplay. A hint was posted previously, but def. is set in order, with a word for "offered too little change" having a letter removed.

I've only been doing the Listener a few years, but when "The Hare" was mentioned here earlier, I looked it up. Gave me the third type right away.

smellyharry - 15d doesn't really work because it's a double def, so there is no ''wordplay... with an extra letter'' - but there is an extra letter in the first def, so it isn't exactly a double def either (first 5 words are for the 1st def).

On the 'tricky bit' not being fair - I think it is more fair than the last time the trick was played. Back then the only appearance of 'hare' in the grid was irregular (sadly, we have a similar situation again here) but we were told to highlight the creature in a straight line. My argument at the time was that specifying 'a straight line' would only be appropriate to letters/cells within the grid - anywhere else and they would necessarily be in a straight line anyway. By the way, I chose to highlight the irregular hare in the grid, fully aware that it was wrong to do so (and that's why I felt I had to add the bit about not 'following the trail', this time) The preamble has been more carefully written this time, I think. so is more fair, I think.
Sorry to have rambled on so much - I was hoping not to revist this...

I quite liked the trick. The hare thing was before my time so I was not guided by that.
Late in the week so I hope this is not too revealing. Much has been said already. Please delete if too much.
I had two shaded items and needed 4 more letters so it had to be the one 4 letter possibility or less likely 2 x 2.
It took minutes to establish they were not in the grid - so where are they?
The preamble suggests we highlight letters. I have never seen this before. We are usually asked to highlight cells. The answer was obvious (to me).
I spent more time after completing the puzzle checking that no other items had slipped in somewhere but nothing to report there.

drxx -

Interesting that you "... chose to highlight the irregular hare in the grid, fully aware that it was wrong to do so...", as I have done exactly the same with this puzzle!

In my opinion the "hint" is far too vague, as if one expands the area of interest (and why shouldn't we?), then another copy of one of the thematic items turns up, albeit less obvious than the one I believe we are all discussing, but well within normal Listener guidelines. So there are now (I believe) two possible highlighting solutions which would satisfy the requirements, not including the one I have submitted, which doesn't!

But in my opinion this is all a step too far. Highlighting is fine if it helps to define a correct solution or even just indicate that we have all understood the underlying theme. But in this case it's just for show. We have all spent hours getting to the correct solution of the grid itself, but a random extra requirement has then been added with insufficient accuracy, which renders the whole thing fatally flawed in my opinion.

smithsax - I understand your "highlight letters" interpretation, as this also stuck out to me. But how are you sure of where to stop in finding letters? Which of the two possible solutions did you submit?!

Also, unless we ignore the guidelines for submission, as longhare mentioned, then this is all irrelevant. I didn't ignore them!