Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

Pebble, that’s not quite right. You are conflating two different things. The first is wordplay. If the grid entry was REGAL, and the clue was “Royal knocks beer back”, it would have to be an across clue. If the clue was “Royal serves up beer”, it would have to be a down clue.

But this is hidden in the clue. The clue is written across, not down. And so the reversed letters are correctly described as from the East.

Thanks, adeano, all clear now.

I agree with the gripes, this was ridiculous. Grid complete, theme identified, but after prolonged grid staring by self and wife (who is a maths graduate, by the way), it was only by chance, after much frustration, that we hit upon the names to be highlighted. I feel that setters really must avoid obscure subjects that those who happen not to have the specialist knowledge will find almost impossible. The names were not in the least obvious!

Sorry to be so negative, the rest of the puzzle was good.

Eenk - the story of the relationship between the two colleagues was widely revealed in recent years- so perhaps not so 'obscure', 'specialist' and 'almost impossible' as you maintain.

The same words could be used to describe the Flann O'Brien-themed Listener a couple of weeks ago, or indeed last week's, both of them on themes that I happen to be very familiar with, but which were evidently completely unknown to many of the regulars on this Forum.

Surely the whole point of The Listener crossword is to challenge our powers of deduction, research, and lateral thinking, to discover words, meanings and themes that may be completely unknown to us as we start on each one?

If they were obvious, where would be the challenge?

Quixote,

Thanks for your considered response.

I agree with most of what you say, except the inclusion of the word “research”. Deduction and lateral thinking are, and should be, required. But prolonged interrogation of Wiki and the like is just tedious.

I am stuck on last week’s too! Again with a full grid. (Though I think I have identified the theme.) Same problem.

Eeenk -
There you go!
Wiki (and the like) research may be 'tedious', but in today's Listener environment it's absolutely b***** essential; for instance, you say that you and your wife had a full grid but for a very long time couldn't name the colleagues - you must therefore have both early been aware that four 'chimaerical' cells symmetrically placed contained 4 very distinctive thematic items different in kind from those in all the other cells. Surely your wife must have been intrigued as to their significance? Had she entered them in the obvious order (or if the order wasn't obvious, as permutations) into Google, or Wiki, the colleagues' names would have immediately appeared. (Note: the
Title is not the Theme.)

Ditto with last week's puzzle, which you say you're stuck on, in spite of having a full grid; I'd go so far as to say that it is impossible to solve last week's theme without consulting Wiki - the very specific imagery required is absolutely arcane and cannot be guessed. Even though I was very familiar with the theme, without being nudged repeatedly towards very specific imagery on Wiki I would not have been able to complete.

I used to pride myself on solving cryptic crosswords totally unaided by dictionaries - but when I started The Listener I realised that reliance on Chambers is not a weakness but a necessity - and given the number of obscure words, always has been. With the availability of electronic apps and online reference encyclopaedias, the thematic ingenuity of setters has, I'm sure, increased to the point where the whole battery of research engines is not only permissible, but essential.

So - swallow your pride and consult the oracles!

I'm with Quixote on this one. (Just don't call me Sancho Panza.) I have encountered many a Listener where I had to do some internet searching to figure out the theme. So what? We all have access, obviously. Sometimes I learn something I find interesting. That's a big plus in my book. Now for this one, as soon as I had the thematic entries, I knew the names, etc. From my username you might suspect that, although I would wager that a majority of mathematicians are not aware of the story. Then again, sometimes I have little or no interest in the theme, but again, so what. The fun was in the sleuthing. A modern Listener for modern times.

OK, I get the point. It seems that internet research is now essential.

On reflection, I now realise that a more intelligent search on the shorter name would probably have resulted in much quicker success, so I withdraw my earlier comments, with apologies to Aedites.

Sancho - gracias compañero!

Eenk- handsomely said.
Sorry for mis-spelling your nomme-de-croix earlier