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Crossword Help Forum
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buddy

2nd May 2022, 20:24
I think the first part of your user name could be useful here!
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son1ofrover1

2nd May 2022, 20:31
Isn't the explorer a contemporary individual's surname ?
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foinaven

2nd May 2022, 20:33
No, I now know who they are now, although I had never heard of them, but the reference in 17d is (a) two words and (b) essential to the clue, so this is not the definition I am seeking. Without giving a lot away it is impossible to be more specific. I would like to know where the definition of this example of the second set is located.
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son1ofrover1

2nd May 2022, 20:37
I have just realised no is the answer to my question !
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granama1

2nd May 2022, 20:41
Foinaven. If I have the clue correct, I found the link in Wikipedia (along with a cocktail a a few businesses of varying levels of interest!). That led me back to the 'Shade in Cairo...' clue.
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jack aubrey

3rd May 2022, 00:07
Andyp and lumen, Chambers reveals (wholly new to me!) that a word for a prosaic terrestrial vehicle is also used for an important part of a space exploration craft.
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foinaven

3rd May 2022, 04:26
In each of the other three answers of the second type, the definition is given as a single word in another clue. This word is redundant in the sense that you can remove it and the clue then makes perfect sense, with a definition and wordplay.

In this case, the thematic answer is part in the clue you mention, but it is not a single word and it is not redundant. That is my issue. If there is no consistency in the way in which the definitions work, I think this is a weakness.
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granama1

3rd May 2022, 07:22
I take your point Foinaven and I did think that the locations of the definitions were a bit hmmm but, if I remember correctly, these were flagged as being 'elsewhere' which is pretty broad.
I don't imagine anyone found the definitions and used them to work out the solutions, more a case of solve the clues then hunt for a definition to confirm the solution. Almost a separate puzzle in itself and not necessary to complete for submission. (Some of them were quite integrated in clues rather than being obviously surplus).
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lumen

3rd May 2022, 10:46
I've filled the other quadrants but not doing well in SE. Can someone get me going with steers for 38a and or 34d. Thanks
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hotelwhiskey7

3rd May 2022, 10:55
I know it's arguing over the details - but the numbers of words of the definitions for the second set are (in my mind, and in clue order of answers rather than definitions): 1, 2, 1, 3.

I think all four need the definition word/words to remain in place to make the native clue still work properly [ie unambiguously and with good crossword grammar].

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