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drxx

12th December 2021, 12:39
Because very occasionally we should be allowed to try and fail, norah - but no more than that (enjoy the race).
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simplesimon

12th December 2021, 13:00
Norah, 😂. Enjoy the race, pins and voodoo doll ready !
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specsaver

12th December 2021, 13:45
Late to the party (sorry, "gathering"), as am still finishing off final bits of the grid (biggest problem is finding all the missing letters even though I know what they spell...).

My two-pennyworth on the thread, even though am only an occasional poster, would be to keep things simple and only have the one with explicit help only permitted after a set number of days (4?) but before the following week's challenge.
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quixote

12th December 2021, 14:10
I don't recall hints to the theme being totally off limits in the past. It was all a matter of judgement.
The seismic event, the cat among the pigeons, that started the whole unpleasantness of the last four months was the posting, in Listener 4464 ' Dream Match' at midsummer (19 June 2021), by a newbie, misled by the thread's title and obviously oblivious of the tacit 'Rules', of the theme in its totality, lock, stock, and barrel - viz:

A Midsummer Night's Dream ACT II SCENE I
TITANIA
"The nine men's morris is fill'd up with mud,"

The result was an initial stunned silence.

I'm sure this post was entirely the result of naivete and, frankly, an understandable confusion from the titles of, and preambles to, the threads, and in no way mischievous in intent.

However, nothing was the same again, the ambiguities in titles led to angry questioning of the 'Rules' - in reality largely a tacit system of etiquette - right up to the recent forced expulsion of one contentious poster - but he did have a point: while ANSWERS are no longer misleadingly advertised, I for one am still not clear whether ANY reference to the theme is, or should be, forbidden - and it's clear to me that this uncertainty is shared by other commentators.
Whether it's possible to write a simple, clear comprehensive set of rules acceptable to all, for the conduct of the ideal one single thread; or whether we go back to rather uncertain reliance on an unwritten tacit system of ethics, is the question - and if the former, who is to bell the cat?
Norah, as an admitted non-crossworder, is clearly not able to do this, and it should not be expected of her - is there a constitutional lawyer among us who could volunteer?
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drxx

12th December 2021, 14:39
Could you please provide a link to that thread quixote? I can't find it on the site and my memory of it doesn't match your description of it.
I remember the post, I think a fairly regular contributor posted it and I'm not convinced it was as innocent a lapse as you suggest.

It's depressing to read so many posts advocating some kind of information blackout - ranging from a few hours to days and even weeks - all based on the assumption that after one quiet week there's no longer any need for the extra threads that some of you campaigned for (to keep a thread as free of any help as possible).

It sounds like a reset so that the old battles can be waged all over again (what a tedious prospect that would be).
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simplesimon

12th December 2021, 14:56
Drxx, you need to scroll back to page 32. It was entry 56 by Krauton
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gem94

12th December 2021, 15:00
It is puzzle 4664, not as shown
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loge

12th December 2021, 15:11
This is the link: https://www.crosswordsolver.org/forum/811504/offset/50

Because I'm such a nice person (?) I'll assume the offending posts were a result of over-eagerness to help!
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drxx

12th December 2021, 15:35
Thanks simplesimon and gem94.

I remember a krauton from decades ago when we both posted on the AB Listener site (back when you could ask for and receive help there) and even if this is a different krauton, I've seen the name quite a few times on this site. I can remember a few occasions where krauton posted similar spoilers on this site, so the 'newbie naivete' suggestion doesn't really hold up. The other suggestion - that the current problems started in June this year - even with my shaky memory I find that hard to swallow.

I'm struggling to understand what it is that this site offers to crossword solvers who are so set against the idea of giving help. I've read posts where they've applauded the AB stance of revealing absolutely nothing at all. I've come to the conclusion that they're here solely to achieve that same situation on this site and giving a few hints now and again is a small price to pay. Every few months sees a push in that direction - it's been like that as far back as I can remember, and as much as some of us have sincerely tried to get the balance right nothing is ever good enough.
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quixote

12th December 2021, 15:45
drxx and folks -sorry about that mistyped number - of course it's 4664 - just type that into the search box at top right at the top of this page, and up will pop the relevant discussion thread.
The revelation was so breathtakingly comprehensive and bare-faced that it can only have been entirely innocent.
I am sure that the 'culprit' was left in no doub as to the enormity of their sin by later, possibly off-record, chastisements.
k, if you're reading this, be assured that I for one have forgiven you, and know that you wouldn't dream of doing it again. As you've posted confidently more recently you evidently haven't been too badly scarred. The ass's ears can be removed.
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