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mattrom

12th December 2021, 21:07
Smellyharry, It's not 6d. 6d. is an abb. for 'take' + anagram. I initially thought it was 'take' + a synonym for 'circuitous route' minus the first letter.
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drxx

12th December 2021, 21:08
...and there was a fair bit of comment regarding the homophone at 29 earlier on.
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jack aubrey

12th December 2021, 21:11
As ever, I am at the coo’s tail. Either everyone else is much quicker than I, or they all have others to deal with the quotidian stuff, like shopping and washing the bedding. (I suspect the first is true!) Anyway, all done fairly briskly. 1a was soon revealed and, given the title, narrowed the field rather drastically. The first unclued “definition” (between 6 and 7d) gave me a guffaw. I am in the 29a “horror” camp. Others have already revealed that it is a homophone after a letter is removed. Homophone clues are notoriously difficult given the range of accents and dialects in the UK. But try as I may, I can’t place any local or class pronunciation of the original that sounds anything like the entry - even as amended with the extra letter. Maybe us Jocks don’t spend enough time in Mayfair.
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simond9x

12th December 2021, 21:32
I’m OK about 29a. I think that the homophone is limited just to the wordplay, so we have 2 words which, in my neck of the woods, are homophones. The wordplay then leaves the letters of the solution, which is confirmed by the definition which is not part of the homophone ‘equation’. May be wrong but that’s my take on it.
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buzzb

13th December 2021, 02:10
Why is the Listener special and the subject of so much contention? Here's my 2 cents:

The Listener was, and in many minds still is, the gold standard of the variety cryptic puzzle. It's the world's oldest thematic crossword. The editors and setters work extremely hard for not much remuneration to provide first class challenges for all of us. I have seen a lot of posts from them about how upsetting it is for a setter to put a 1st class enigma out there and then have someone thoughtlessly spoil it with an internet post.

Furthermore, there is an annual award banquet with prizes for the best puzzle and the best solver of the year. They really want the winner to have truly earned it by solving the puzzles legitimately. (What legitimately means is itself the subject of debate - some think that the use of any tool, such as TEA or Google or Wikipedia is bad).

Those who are all-correct for the year through their own ingenuity and perseverance are understandably upset to think others are getting 100% not through their own efforts. It's a competition after all. That's why AB and Derek Harrison's message board are so strict about the Listener.

Hopefully those who come here for help are not entering (but that's probably naïve); I don't. But in any case, if there's a very ingenious endgame to a Listener, it's just as upsetting to see it revealed here as it would be if the ending of an ingenious mystery or a movie such as the Sixth Sense were blurted out.

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norah (admin)

13th December 2021, 08:16
Buzzb, thanks for the explanation about what makes the Listener unique, very interesting indeed.

However, I don't intend to get into the morals of giving answers to any crossword, I will just say that Ash set up the Crossword Solver site to help everyone with their crosswords, be it the simple Daily Mail or the Listener, as owner of the site I'm sure he doesn't differentiate between the two.

On the other hand, as Admin, I fully appreciate the uniqueness of the Listener with its end game. As such, I will continue to strive to provide a means of helping as many users as possible but without providing direct answers to either the clues or the end game.

As I said before, I'm reading all your comments even if not replying to each one, as to Malone's query about whether I needed a second weekend off - Yes, I do, ha, ha.


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loge

13th December 2021, 08:28
That's a masterly summary, Buzzb. I was considering answering the question but wouldn't have put it nearly as succinctly as you have.

If there's one unifying theme among the many posts about the Listener threads, it's that the great majority do NOT want to see the theme given away directly. I have also corresponded with a few setters who all say that they are fine with people being given a gentle nudge to get over the line, but not with the theme itself being given away explicitly. That's pretty much what happens anyway. It's inevitable there will be transgressions from time to time (I'm sure I've done it myself), but the report button is there for a reason and permanent offenders can be prevented from posting if necessary.

One setter did tell me that "cute" posts (such as "it's all Greek to me" on a puzzle themed around the Greek alphabet) are extremely annoying to setters and perhaps we should discourage that sort of thing.

This all reared its ugly head again because Norah went the extra mile to accommodate a contributor who behaved in an obnoxious way, and although he's been banned I have a feeling he's enjoying reading the mayhem he's caused.

As for the submission of the solution: I also hope that nobody who comes here for help enters the prize draw/statistics record.I suspect most, if all, don't, but obviously it's unenforceable and it's a matter for individual conscience. I may be wrong about this, but didn't Answerbank ban hints on the Listener because at least one person boasted about using it to get a 100% record? It would be a shame if that had to happen here.

Here endeth the lesson.
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drxx

13th December 2021, 09:44
I believe you are wrong, loge - the AB thread had banned direct hints and help before the bragging incident you mention. That 'help' wasn't in the thread, it came from regulars on the thread - some of them setters themselves - possibly given via private texts (as some contributors here prefer to do).
That 'all correct' was especially notable because it was achieved in the first year of attempting The Listener (so much for the 'lifetime's work' idea) and I'm sure the 'banquet' was deemed suitable reward for all the effort.
There's a great deal of hypocrisy in the 'elite' crossword world.
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loge

13th December 2021, 09:58
Thanks Drxx, I’m sure you’re right. It all happened long before I joined any crossword forums.



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gregwatsonuk

13th December 2021, 12:58
Despite earlier hint, still stuck on 1d. I have letters 1 and 3 (from the theme) and 6.
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