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mathprofrockstar

10th October 2021, 20:20
I completely agree on the “it” clues and their ilk though, as well as the “pi” for pious clues we have discussed before.
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paulhabershon

10th October 2021, 22:16
That's right, mathprof; debutantes are a legitimate part of social history. We should not erase them, otherwise we shouldn't have clues about suffragettes, for example, just because they aren't with us today. I accept that they may be overused, but that's true of many crossword devices (initially, starts to etc.).

Another extraordinary (as it seems now) example of the English class system was the annual first class cricket match, Gentlemen v Players. When playing for their counties the
gentlemen amateurs were listed on the scorecard with their initials and possibly used a different dressing room than the 'players' who were paid professionals and had just their surname on the scorecards and in newspaper reports. The last such match was in 1962 - the Gentlemen's last victory was in 1953. I still remember many of the amateur initials: P B H May, M C Cowdrey, E R Dexter, M J K Smith, G O Allen, D C S Compton. There was quite a furore when Len Hutton (you see, I don't know his full initials) became, I think, the first professional captain of the England team.
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grunger

11th October 2021, 11:10
Paul

Congratulations on your winning clue, which I like, especially the coming out on strike idea.

I thought Compton was a professional (cricket and football).

Malone

Yes I would be happy to handle the fashion if you and Mattrom do the tennis. Her appeal for any coaches out there was interesting. I will advise her to stick to tennis and leave the "out there" fashion to others.
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jigjag

11th October 2021, 11:22
Paul

Congratulations on your winning clue.

I remember hearing Fred Titmus telling the story that when he first played at Lords, there was an announcement "Change to the scorecard: F J Titmus should read Titmus F J"
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paulhabershon

11th October 2021, 14:39
grunger #153 and jigjag #154

You are right, grunger. Compton was a pro, so he must have been Compton D C S.

Another story I heard was that when the Duke of Norfolk managed the England team on tour in Australia he told the players, 'You don't have to address me as Your Royal Highness, you may just call me Sir.'
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grunger

12th October 2021, 10:20
I am delighted that Capt Kirk is returning to space, but in New Shepard? Why not New Shepardess?
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grunger

13th October 2021, 11:59
Malone

I liked 23A in the Times today, reminded me of your humorous article last year, when you almost opened a shop with that name.

Not sure about 1D though.
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malone

13th October 2021, 12:16
Grunger, thanks - and I'd forgotten all about that shop (and can't even remember how the name worked!).

I didn't much like 1 D, but Collins (Dictionary) does, so...

Re the earlier comments on the Deb (often The Dreaded Deb to me)... I don't mind the word, I think it comes from an interesting time and so on, but it just seems too easy for setters to use. Some words, clues become overfamiliar. For a while, every 'giant' was going to be Eten, every sewing box would be Etui and 'appeal' nearly always leads to It or SA.
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jigjag

13th October 2021, 21:27
Malone Grunger

I quite like deb, agree it is from an interesting era. I have never met one, but would have liked to. Yes it is a handy word for setters, and I much prefer it to char and todays 1D which just seem insulting.
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grunger

14th October 2021, 15:13
I thought 10 A in the Times today was a poor clue:

As some might say: despicable local fiddle (6)

I pronounce the answer with 3 distinct syllables, equally stressed. I know the clues says "some" but I dont like it.
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