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elle

2nd January 2017, 12:16
Yes, I was able to do 20a because of the similarity to the clue in the previous crossword!

I thought 11a was a good one - but I have a query........
Shaw is a masculine playwright ( I cannot think of any female one of the name "Shaw"? ) yet the female form of born is required - " nee" instead of "ne"?
Does it matter?
I guess one could consider the "born" part of the clue to be completely separate but I find it somewhat unsatisfying?

Sorry I cannot do the acute accent.
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rusty

2nd January 2017, 12:19
Hello, Elle!
You are cooking by gas today with your crossword!
Hope you got 20a!
And Malone has explained PH!
I think that was the way pubs were designated on the Ordnance Survey maps.
"Metonym" is a new word to me.
Yes, I saw the Jumbo.
(I do not do that one)

Happy New Year, Malone!
Yes, I saw that annoying 11 across one!
This happens regularly.
It was a good clue, though.
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malone

2nd January 2017, 12:21
I think the setter is mistakenly using Nee as meaning simply Born, irrespective of gender, but I also think it's separate to the 'playwright' part. I don't think I've ever seen 'ne', born, when referring to a male - it doesn't actually look right.
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rusty

2nd January 2017, 12:23
I have only seen "nee", Malone.
I had it in my head it was French?
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elle

2nd January 2017, 12:25
it is right, though, Malone.
and it's in Chambers!
I guess we don't see "ne" in the male form very often, because the term is usually used in relation to indicating a woman's maiden name.
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malone

2nd January 2017, 12:26
Nee, female, is in Chambers and so is Ne, male, both from the French. The female version is for a 'maiden name', the male is 'the original name of a titled man'. I didn't know that until now!
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pigale

2nd January 2017, 12:33
Hi Elle, Rusty and Malone (and a happy New Year to you Malone!)

The only time ne (with accent!) is used is when saying, for instance

IL EST NE LE .......
(he was born on the .......)


but as Elle has said, it will never be used as a reference to a maiden name for obvious reasons!
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pigale

2nd January 2017, 12:35
PS I did not know that Malone - I obviously do not know any titled men! (Do we have many in France?)
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elle

2nd January 2017, 12:37
Hi, Rusty!
Yes, I got 20a right away thanks to the similarity of the previously given clue!
Yes "ne/ nee " are French.
Both are in Chambers.
Now that is interesting about what Malone says about "ne" meaning the name originally given to a titled man.
Yes, it does say that in Chambers........I didn't read it properly ( sorry , Malone!)
However, .....it doesn't give that definition of "ne" in my French dictionary!
But indicates male or female usage of "ne (e)".
Perhaps Pigale will help us out here?
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pigale

2nd January 2017, 12:50

Elle, bar the (unknown to me) meaning Malone has highlighted,
'ne' is the participle of the verb naitre = to be born (il est ne)
and seldom do dictionaries give verbs in their conjugated form.

I can't do accents either - not available on my particular set up.
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