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specsaver

29th August 2022, 18:10
Thanks Gitto. You put me too out of my misery. Not my scene either so had to check it on out on the interweb.
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rickye

29th August 2022, 18:21
So pleased I stuck with this one. Thanks Crash.
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murky

30th August 2022, 12:51
I'm a little puzzled by this comment by drxx at #6:
"I think this particular theme sends the editors into a panic and they invariably feel the need to spoonfeed us. "

Unless he has inside information I don't see how he can surmise that the editors have amended this puzzle to make it easier. The circles cannot be editorial additions for reasons that should be obvious. In general the editors amend preambles that are overlong or unclear, and clues that breach editorial guidelines or need shortening to fit available space. In the last fifteen years I can recall only a few tough puzzles that I know were modified to make them a bit easier. This is not a tough puzzle.

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drxx

30th August 2022, 13:47
I had some dealings with one of The Listener editors a long time ago, he had little or no skill in this particular subject back then and was concerned about the level of difficulty involved if solvers were expected to follow its rules to a conclusion. This doesn't appear to be a general problem, because solvers are routinely expected to apply mathematical rules, origami techniques and a wide variety of 'rules of the game' to Listener puzzles - and for those of us who can't or won't, we just accept defeat.
Why this particular subject (one that's been around for many thousands of years) should be the exception, I don't know. Just about every time it comes up it's a 'classic' of sorts, so a little research is usually all it takes to arrive at a successful conclusion - and even that wasn't expected this time, because the conclusion was spelled out for us. My opening comment referred to this, and the fact that a careful reading of the preamble made it possible - for me at least - to know exactly what the final grid would be (with the very minimum of research required).
I said at the outset that I thought it was a well worked puzzle except for the flaws that spoilt it for me but, as everyone posting here seems to be oblivious to either of the flaws I hinted at, we might as well leave it there.
However, the kind of endgame we see in some daily newspapers, week in week out, can be adapted to a Listener crossword (I know this because I constructed one that at least got to the first stage of the vetting process) and I would like to see one appear... eventually.

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crowdedmorning

31st August 2022, 14:44
Despite a very slow start I think I managed to complete this one without resorting to this thread, but I'm slightly nervous about it. I'm nervous about posting it in the state in which we are apparently instructed to leave it. I assume the nature of this concern will be obvious to those who have completed it; should I be confident in my grid if I followed the revealed instructions literally? I've not yet solved a Listener with a final grid treatment this...stark.
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candledave

31st August 2022, 15:21
Yes, Chris, just post it
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will37

31st August 2022, 15:49
Chris - Check out puzzle 4687 (26.11.21) and its solution if you are able to. It will ease any misgivings you may have about this present puzzle!
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williamseal

31st August 2022, 16:00
Well I've ploughed my way through this and managed to complete the grid without recourse to this thread. For me that's good going.

The theme eludes me - it's obviously about a pastime that holds no interest to me. Is it about a well-known manifestation? If so are the last five clues part of the instruction? Greetings to all who help - very wet on the sandbank today.
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buddy

31st August 2022, 17:11
ws, the theme is apparently well known to those who follow the pastime (but it was not to me, since I don't). It is quite Google-able however. All of the corrections of the misprints are needed to execute the endgame, so that includes the last 5 clues.
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williamseal

31st August 2022, 17:55
Thanks buddy -see it now
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