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loge

31st May 2021, 12:47
One is in the penultimate column, beginning with O (7 letters). The other is in the penultimate row, starting with P (the second one) and is also 7 letters.
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williamseal

31st May 2021, 13:09
Thanks Loge

I can now enjoy the football. You guidance much appreciated.


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quiz

31st May 2021, 14:47
I’m all done, but a couple of superficial queries. Isn’t ‘basically’ in 7a superfluous? And isn’t there an extra letter (R) in the 1a clue, which then sticks out at the beginning of the phrase describing the four pairs?
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ardri

31st May 2021, 14:58
Hi quiz. "Basically" in 7d indicates the last letters of the words. The thematic word in 1a takes care of the superfluous R.
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brendan

31st May 2021, 15:00
Hi Quiz,

1a - Is thematic - check the thematically changed meaning of "fast" and you'll see it.

7d - I wondered that myself 🤔
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brendan

31st May 2021, 15:01
Ah! Many thanks Ardri:-)
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neophyte

31st May 2021, 17:21
Took me a while and much help from this forum (especially williamseal's cry of angst which gave me my PDM when puzzle was already two thirds done) but pleased to complete this. Only coming on now to observe that two words in the instructions seem oddly redundant but are, I expect, meant as an extra hint.
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muraria

31st May 2021, 19:38
Indeed neophyte, I wondered at the start whether 'once removed' meant we would have to convert the extra letter to the next letter in the alphabet, or something like that
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robp86

31st May 2021, 21:55
I too am fed up of thrilling at the PDM, marvelling at the skill of the setter for incorporating the thematic material into the clues/grid and then hating him/her for making me stare at a grid for hours on end in a (usually) fruitless word search blindly trying to guess what was in their mind. If I wanted to do a word search I would buy one of those cheap magazines.

Apart from the word search this was a fantastic puzzle.

Sorry - rant over
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loge

31st May 2021, 22:33
So other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?

I agree with you in principle, Rob. It's maddening to knock off a grid fill quite quickly, get the theme, then spend hours staring at the grid wondering WTF we're supposed to highlight. This one wasn't like that for me, but there have been plenty of others that have been.

Around the time the Times abolished Crossword Club only membership and made us shell out for the full Monty, pretty much every Listener seemed to be of the 45 minute grid fill/ endless grid stare variety, and I nearly cancelled my subscription.

There don't seem to be as many grid stares these days. Perhaps the editors have listened to comments here and on Answerbank? But while experience may make us better solvers of clues, we all face a new thematic challenge each week and however good a solver you are, there are times when the endgame will elude you (and me!). Help is at hand from the good folk on this site and there is no shame in asking for a nudge when necessary.
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