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Crossword Help Forum
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loge

1st February 2021, 08:40
Now I get it - nice idea. I think the centre is the most likely candidate, given the neat symmetry, but I'm certainly open to other suggestions,
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mattrom

1st February 2021, 08:45
Re the final 'cell'. The system that uses the symbols is not heliocentric, even though the bodies that the symbols relate to, are.
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valitudinarian

1st February 2021, 15:53
I do the times cryptic most days but have never managed to do the Listener. Most times I don’t understand the instructions as with this one. When I wrote to the editor previously about this the reply was along the lines of ‘aha, if you don’t understand the instructions this is not for you so bugger off!’ Or something like that.
Anyway, persevering, could someone explain, does clashing mean the same letter occurring? So balloon and car intersect at the a... is this a clash? Also as there is not space in the grid for the 10,11,12 letter answers, how are these answers reduced? Are the letters which are duplicated (such as l and o in balloon ) ignored?

Or if not than how are the long entries reduced? I realise this may be the nub of the problem but any help, written as if one was speaking to an educationally challenged 4 year old would be appreciated. Many thanks.
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buddy

1st February 2021, 15:57
A clash means different letters in the cell from the two intersecting clues.

Here the clashes involve more than 2 letters. So if the intersecting entries were STAR and FLEW each with 3 spaces to enter the answer, the entries could be S (TA) R intersecting with F (LE) W with TALE in the clashing cell.

No letters are ignored
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valitudinarian

1st February 2021, 16:15
Thanks buddy. So are there always 4 letters in the intersecting clue or can it be any even number? And does the clash have to make a word of its own, such as Tale in your example? Is that answer of TALE clued in any way?

Can you give me any clue as to how you would know whether the answer to the cryptic clue is to be reduced or not?

As you can see I’m miles away from understanding but as I have some of the clue answers I’d like to work my way through the solution to try and understand a bit better
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lumen

1st February 2021, 17:23
In this instance, (but not always), we have clear indication of the length of answer (not the grid entry).
So as you already said, 11 and 12 won't fit in the grid. But otherwise it's a jigsaw, 8 letter answers may fit in 8, or 7, or smaller spaces. It's all part of the 'fun'. I have been doing these for years and always spend 2-5 hours on each one, for Listener and Inquisitor. 1-2 hrs for Spectator. That's my level.
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valitudinarian

1st February 2021, 17:44
But then how can one identify a clash? Sheer trial and error? And repeating my question to buddy, if you do indentify a clash do the letters make up a new word (TALE) in his example, and if so is there any clueing to indicate whether tale might be right?.

Or could the clash letters be any group of two letter pairs, one from each answer, which don’t necessarily constitute a new word.?

How might one start to unlock the puzzle of where the first entry or entries might go? In a normal crossword with one 12 letter solution, there is of course an obvious start point...
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lumen

1st February 2021, 17:57
Clash letters normally make up a set of theme words. I recall one with football teams for example. This type of puzzle probably comes up about twice a year - it's not common.
Other clash puzzles just have a choice of two letters in each clash cell. Then, we need to choose one of each pair to keep, and it is likely the unused ones will spell out something of significance.
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buddy

1st February 2021, 17:58
My example was just highly simplified to get the idea across. The number of letters in any clashing square can be 3 or more (number of letters can be odd or even). The letters are to be anagrammed to make a thematic word (nothing in the clue will hint at the thematic word).

This puzzle is a beast, and probably not a good one to cut your teeth on. The saving grace is the 90 degree symmetry so that once you find a clash you know where 3 more will be.
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lumen

1st February 2021, 18:06
Sorry I was being so dim about symmetry yesterday. As I drove to work today (at 5.50am!) I suddenly realised what 90 degree symmetry is. It's what I was calling full symmetry.
Every quarter turn, it is the same.
Whereas 180 symmetry is more of a diagonal reflection only.
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