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granama1

17th November 2019, 12:25
Thanks rrrobbo, that makes pefect sense of the clue. Oddly I'd never thought of dutiful in relation to that. I've always thought it had a derogatory undertone but no, followed it back with Chambers and bingo, first definition...dutiful.
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murky

17th November 2019, 13:17
Can't say I enjoyed this at all. I couldn't start on the grid until I had solved about 80% of the clues, and even then progress was halting. Even with the exemplifications the method of entry wasn't initially clear.

And there wasn't even an endgame reward after all the slog.
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rrrobbo

17th November 2019, 14:00
I tend to agree Murky. I have a full grid and all the transformations but remain confused as to how groups 2 and 3 ‘work’. I have those sharing the same transformation word. I only have one of the misprints though, so that may be my problem. The one i have is for the answer in what would be 3 down. Can i get some help with the other two please?
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monkjunk

17th November 2019, 14:42
@rrrobbo The last clues in groups 2 and 4 have misprints.
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rrrobbo

17th November 2019, 14:59
Ah, yes. I see how that works and what is required now. Many thanks.
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saoralba

17th November 2019, 15:19
Hints have been given but I'm still in the dark about the misprint in Group 4. Also, the answer I have is a synonym for the last word of the last clue but I've no idea how to work in the superfluous L.

I'm also perplexed to find I have an almost completed grid in which one of the two unclued entries could be one of three things, although the 10-letter one is obvious. How they could fit into two groups is beyond me, as both are entered normally.

I suspect my grid-fill is wrong anyway, as I have eight answers that only fit if I ignore the transformation for the group they're supposedly in. If I have to start all over again I think I'll call it a (depressingly wasted) day.
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xij

17th November 2019, 15:33
I too am baffled by the last clue, even though I have the misprint, and what are the 3 dots there for. I only have two of group 2, and cannot fathom the wordplay for the first of group 3. Also the fourth of group 1. Any help appreciated.
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murky

17th November 2019, 15:48
xij, I think the dots can be ignored. The wordplay is the initial letters of three words in the clue, one of those letters being extra; then a four-letter word for 'pines'. The last word is the definer.

saoralba, the ambiguity you have noted is resolveable ( I could see only two possibilitities differing in the fourth letter). Only one of those words could be seen BOTH as a normal entry AND an entry in another group. The other could be entered as one or the other, but not both since the fourth letter would appear differently in each case.

That's how I have interpreted the preamble, anyway. Hope I'm right.
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saoralba

17th November 2019, 16:07
Thanks murky for helping the pennies (x2) to drop with regard to the last clue. However, the two unclued answers are still as clear as mud. (There are three possible fourth letters for the shorter one: E, O, U.)

xij, the first in Group 3 requires a three-letter word for worry, one of which is redundant, then alternate letters of a later word in the clue, the 'bars' in the def being musical. The fourth in Group 1 is one I had trouble with, but IS + TT should help, and the poet is unambiguous, although I can't parse the first four words.
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buzzb

17th November 2019, 16:07
I strongly disagree with all of the negative comments about this puzzle.

Yes it is quite difficult, but the overall concept was extremely clever as was the unique use of misprints (at least I've never seen that before.)

Four stars from me!
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