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merenz

27th January 2019, 20:42
My previous post refers to the fodder clue Casanova. For 17a switch the first two words. Queen and oral rehydration therapy
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drxx

27th January 2019, 20:47
17ac - I moved the second word to follow 'for'.
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casanova

27th January 2019, 20:57
Thanks Merenz and Drxx
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murky

28th January 2019, 08:33
Drxx, I grant that there are various possible amendments to the clue that you and others might prefer. All I was saying was that it does not strike me as unfair or unsound. 'This' makes clear that the definition is 'much-admired thing', a not uncommon signpost. The longer word from which the answer is derived could not be the answer because it isn't four letters. I know it's normal for the definition to be placed at the beginning or end of the clue, but this example is one of the rare exceptions to that rule.
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drxx

28th January 2019, 10:25
murky - I'm not suggesting anything should be added to make the clue sound, I was arguing against that idea.
My suggestion is to treat 'Once' as a conjunction rather than an adjective, I think the clue has a better surface this way - and if that means dropping the indicator, then it's a price worth paying (well, for me it is, although I accept that for you it is not).
I'd be happier with your suggestion that 'this' manages to specify which of the two definitions leads to the answer if it wasn't followed by 'is' before the second definition - double definition clues usually work in this way. Answer length is a subsidiary indication, it should not be definitive.

My earlier 'boundaries of fairness' remark wasn't questioning the clue's structure (and I certainly wasn't expecting it to be so controversial in certain quarters!) I was referring to the practice of using very obscure double definitions to arrive at simple answers - this clue is a variation on that idea. I dislike the practice, as do many solvers, but setters like to twist the knife from time to time. Having said that, I think Gos's clues were very good both before and after adjustment - no mean feat.

I've enjoyed discussing this with you murky, thank you, but I'm taking up too much space with my ramblings, so I'll leave it there.

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murky

28th January 2019, 16:38
Drxx, thanks for your response. I don't disagree with much of what you say, and I, too, would have preferred something other than 'is'.

I've just posted a 'thankyou' note on the IQ forum, where a comment you made led to a sudden revelation.
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drxx

28th January 2019, 17:12
Thank you murky, as I've said, it's been a pleasure discussing it with you (and I'm pretty sure you'll be proved right when the blog appears).
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token

29th January 2019, 09:30
Excellent crossword.
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rrrobbo

29th January 2019, 22:20
I am underwhelmed. It was essentially just a really hard puzzle. Way too hard for me with a lack of any interesting theme. I resorted to cheating to get it over and done with. Maybe I missed something underlying. I understand others might like this straightforward kind of challenge but the thrill wasn’t there for me at all. I didn’t actually realise the listener came in such form at times. Ah well. Takes all sorts.
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smellyharry

31st January 2019, 20:18
For what it’s worth I agree with murky on 7. Once must be referring to the fact that we need an old word for over. Then the clue works. It would only work as drxx suggests if the longer word was just the answer and line.

Found this a bit odd. Unlike some others it seems and most unusually for me I spotted the theme after I’d solved two clues and looked up removal in chambers. I then rattled through 20 clues pretty quickly. I then hit a brick wall for over 2 hours with no clues solved at all. Then a couple more came and the rest quickly dropped into place. The clues were generally very tough I thought, but all very fair.

Wouldn’t want em like this every week but made a pleasant change. I’d rather have this than an impenetrable grid stare.
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