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dsm101

25th July 2018, 00:29
And of course within five minutes of posting that, I noticed that the same issue was already brought up back in post #11. Oops.
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smithsax

25th July 2018, 08:22
I am OK with the fact that the requirement that all words in the final grid are real words was not stated. The statement that one is a local place name imples they should not be random jumbles of letters. If my am correct another final across word is a given name.
I struggled with 17 as well though. I finished up with damn meaning extremely. I took nuts to mean anagram of and with an m. However Chambers does not give extremely as a definition for damn. You need damned for that. Also I cannot get m from minute. It is not listed as an abbreviation for minute as far as I can see.
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wintonian

25th July 2018, 12:08
I’d try to parse 17ac as a double definition &lit clue. We have two definitions of “damn”: “extremely minute”, corresponding to the definition in Chambers “something of little value”, and “nuts”, “an interjection expressing annoyance, disgust or impatience”. The wordplay is M (extremely indicates first letter of minute) + AND, with nuts indicating an anagram.

I realise that a lot of setters would not approve of using extremely to indicate a first letter, although some allow it for the first and last letters of a word. Also, extremely minute suggests an adjective, whereas something of little value is a noun.

But I suspect that Charybdis (and the editors) just didn’t check whether m was actually listed as an abbreviation for minute in Chambers - which gives “min.” as the abbreviation. A few setters would allow min to be read as m in, and “minute and nuts” as “M in AND*”, but I don’t think this is acceptable in The Listener Crossword.

By the way, the given name is in the list of some first names at the back of Chambers, so didn’t need to be referred to specifically in the preamble.
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orientfan

25th July 2018, 12:19
I've really struggled with this puzzle. I have two clues hitherto not mentioned that I can't solve and would really appreciate some help:

21: Parent involved in ecstasy rave.

28: It'd be a laugh if inept hotel put papa out in this tent.

To my mind the latter could be read in two ways, with the definition being either 'It'd be a laugh' (unch therefore being H) or 'this tent' (unch therefore being P).

Help and thoughts much appreciated!
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djawhufc

25th July 2018, 12:30
Got round to this one late and it was an extraordinary construction.

Orientfan

21a rave is extra- anagram of parent

28d- inept is extra. A word for laugh beginning with T that if you swapped its H for a P you'd have a Native American's home.
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simond9x

25th July 2018, 12:55
Re 17a, my CD version of Chambers has "m or m. abbrev: male, mark, married.......minute(s), month(s)" under the 6th entry for M so I'm quite happy with the wordplay (although I do think EXTREMELY = DAMNED not DAMN)
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djawhufc

25th July 2018, 13:08
Hi simon9x

What about in the phrase- 'Damn fine'- wouldn't you take damn to mean very or extremely in that case?
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wintonian

25th July 2018, 13:12
Hi, simond9x,

Interesting that the CD version of Chambers gives m as an abbreviation for minute(s). So does the ninth edition (2003) of the print version, but not the thirteenth edition (2014).

I think that the last definition “adj or adv as an intensifier” allows extremely to be a valid definition for damn, not just damned. Many people would say “It’s damn hot” as an equivalent to “It’s extremely hot “.
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simond9x

25th July 2018, 13:23
I would always write and say (eg) "damn hot" as "damned hot" looks and sounds very archaic to me - I was just going by Chambers although I take your point about its use as an intensifier.

Whilst I'm here, can anyone tell me where the Y of MY goes in 27d? I can't see that bit of the wordplay. Thanks.
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orientfan

25th July 2018, 13:30
Thanks so much dja
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