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so you have the mechanic for the secpnd message - in which case im not entirely sure why you cant get the 7 letter word - unless somehow you have the wrong clue, but still managed to get the first message?

Quite so giotto, unless one has the '7-letter' attempts to use either the bridge guy or the mirror guy techniques are nbg!

gitto - check the second sentence of preamble, particularly the end of it (sorry if i misinterpreted what you have tried)

sorry greengage - let me know if i misunserstood you - do you have the message (inc the 7 letter word), but you dont know what "7 letter word" to use?

Thanks andyp; I know what the 7-letter word is, but doesn't one need a specific instance of it to 29...?

And sorry gitto, spellchecker strikes!

got you - have you found variants of 7?

andyp I have; there is a very well known one that fits at 1ac and there are several created by another person with the same forename. But don't have a scooby about how to pick a '7letter'....

greengage, I'm not sure what you mean by the bridge/mirror guys, the 3 techniques I've tried are associated with an despot, admiral and a mathematician (who cracked it), and the 2nd of those I "THINK" must be 1a, but I cannot get there. The name of the first is from the 31 extra words and the forenames of the other 2 are in the grid.

you need "several" - with each one matching what the long message says (trying not to give too much away)

And have just found two more that fit at 1ac. Bah!