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muraria

18th December 2022, 20:25
Same here Jordan!
The instruction states that solvers must arrange "these letters" so I've stuck with the 16.
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jordan

19th December 2022, 04:02
Thanks for that M. Its my gut feeling too but they are so often wrong when it comes to the Listener.
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ukridge

19th December 2022, 11:39
I found this difficult but enjoyable. I can't help wondering, though, why one - and only one - possible thematic item was not used in the puzzle.
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gem94

19th December 2022, 12:26
If you are thinking about the one I am thinking about, it is not officially a thematic item.
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0pt0

19th December 2022, 12:47
Does anyone know whether there will be a Listener next weekend?
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acornz

19th December 2022, 13:04
The not-official thematic item really messed me about because I spent ages looking for it in the grid (as it would have made it in) and it just wasn't. Finally I Google'd it and learned something :)

The 'internal letters' bit of the preamble could have been better worded (or perhaps 'more helpfully' is a more accurate way of saying it - I suspect Yorick deliberately chose something a bit opaque). Took me ages for the penny to drop, and I dread to think how many rabbit holes I went down. I could see that some of the clues had a slightly less natural reading, but once I worked out what was going on, I was surprised; I was expecting something that put more of a constraint on the setter given the surface readings. Go figure.

Very satisfying to finish - if that's it for the year, all that's left to do is wait and see how many silly mistakes I've made, as I've submitted all puzzles this year (which may be a first!).
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crowdedmorning

19th December 2022, 13:26
Really struggling with this one! I have nearly two thirds of the clues solved but feel totally at sea with respect to the theme.

I don't know if this is a fair question to ask but it pertains strictly to how the rules are explains in the preamble. Based on my understanding of how preambles tend to be worded, the positioning of the phrase "For several other clues, the answer's last letter will not fit in the grid" suggests to me that these clues (since they're referred to as "other") are not part of the clashing mechanic described in the preceding sentence. Is this a fair reading? I had been operating on that possibly-wrong assumption for most of my solve but after some recent answers it looks like it may be totally irrelevant.

Failing that, would anyone like to nudge me regarding 20S?
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acornz

19th December 2022, 13:38
No answer that goes 'over the grid' is involved in any clash.

For 20S, the first five words of the clue are the definition, the last five words are the wordplay. The wordplay is (for me) more straightforward than the definition!
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crowdedmorning

19th December 2022, 13:44
Thanks much acornz, could have sworn I tried that approach with that wordplay but I must have missed it somehow!

Your other point about the "over the grid" bits is incredibly ominous and suggests I may have quite a few incorrect answers...
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candledave

19th December 2022, 13:46
acornz - I was assuming we still had two more to go this year as neither 24th nor 31st are bank holidays.
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