Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

Hi All,

Apologies if this was answered before, but the only point that is still very unclear to me is how the 180-symmetry is maintained wrt columns 5 and 13. It seems that in column 5 the answer occupies 10 cells whereas in row 13 it has to get extended upwards and thus occupy 11. What am I missing?

*column 13, of course. Apologies.

I think that is a fair point. I guess the answer can originally be entered in 10 cells but if the same rules apply as in the other big characters it extends up.
A small error - not surprising the editors missed it in such a complicated puzzle.

Thanks, Logo!

Michpunk, I don't quite follow you. Bars, if entered, would display rotational symmetry, not the answers. I don't see any difference between the way the answer is notionally entered in column 13, and, for example, column 7, though the starting point of the latter is more clearly fixed. You could start the answer in column 13 lower down, leaving a blank cell above it (and maybe that's what the solver is supposed to do in the light of the endgame) but the barring is still symmetrical.

Murky,

Well, here is what I mean in the language of bars. In column 5, the bar is under row 11. Which means that in column 13 it has to be under row 3. Which means that the rather long answer in column 13 has to start at row 4. Which means that row 3 cell is not part of the down entry, and is not standing in for any letter there, but it is certainly part of a LtL character. Which makes it the only such cell out of 42. Maybe it is still allowed by the wording of the preamble, but I find it a bit weird.

Mmm, I can see sides of this particular debate. For symmetry's sake the bar should be below the third letter in column 13 with the solution to the down clue starting in row 4. However that would mean a clash between an A and an S in column 13 row 3, as the 2nd letter of the synonym, not what is intended by the setter I'm sure.I think the intention is to have all the clashes involving one of the 5 LTL letters.
All rather academic of course as we are told not to enter any bars but I think it is a small oversight as smithsax said.

I'm not sure what the issue is here - is there a typo in your reply to murky regarding the bars, michpunk? Because I wouldn't have a bar under row 11 - my bar would be under row 10.
Other than the possibility of a simple typo, I accept there's some 'interpretation' required to fit the entry into row 13 for symmetry's sake but I think it is possible (or have we got entirely different answers for column 5 or column 13?).

Despite unashamedly nicking hints from here, I haven't slumped over the line.

I have guessed the subject from recent hints, and in that context I think that we should be grateful that it wasn't rap or some other monstrosity😁

...sorry, my typo - that should have read, 'column 13 for symmetry's sake' (not row 13).