Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

The Feedback colum in today's Times (26/08) has an interesting piece on actresses and authoresses anfd other 'esses. i was happy to see that their Style Guide says 'feminine designations such as authoress, poetess... are to be avoided. Actress remains widely accepted(not least by most acrresses) and should be used.'

Malone

Nice to hear from you.

I know we disagree on this, but I think all -esses are widely accepted, the ones you mention plus shepherdess, bus conductress etc. I know Grunger is very keen on them, but as we have not heard from her for some time, I assume she has taken a schoolmistressship, probably abroad.

Also, I did not know that the Style Guide was an authority on the English language, but I may be wrong.

Malone

The Feedback column also mentions that female cricketers still refer to 'third man' (fielding position), batsmen (not batters), being a man short etc. and get irritated by commentators and journalists not following suit.

Hello again, Jigjag. I hope you are well and continuing to support the local economy by buying more than the occasional nine-item breakfast?

Sorry, the Feedback column is really about how the Times itself handles things, approaches things - and the Style Guide is their manual, obviously designed to help writers, subs etc. I'm sure you and Grunger (and many others) would be happy for the -esses to continue, but I'm with the Times - the 'esses' forms were often used to 'trivialise and disparage' and I don't think we need them anyway.

And I think there's an age element involved too - some of these terms seem so dated now. My young next door neighbour would be appalled to be called a poetess, she's a very highly regarded, published poet. And I know that one or two of the leading conducting people expect to be called conductors. I don't mind 'actress' at all as the word is in very common usage, but I also don't mind if female acting people describe themselves as 'actors'.

Hello, Paul... Yes, I have quite enjoyed the discussions - recent and in the past - about batsmen, batters etc. I have found it interesting and entertaining - mainly because the world of cricket is such unknown territory to me!

Paul, Malone

Interesting that the Feedback column reflects the common and natural vocabulary. I suppose that if commentators and journalists insist on "batters", the natural word for female "batters" must be "batteresses". I think I will use this word in future, rather elegant, perhaps.

Malone

Judging from your crossword skills, I think you know rather a lot about cricket, football, baseball etc. Funnily enough, I went to the market cafe yesterday after a rather long absence. I will do a report.

I went to the market café yesterday, my first visit for many months. After all the problems with multi-item and all-day breakfasts, I decided to order one of my favourites, poached eggs on toast.

I know Malone thinks that I am a slightly awkward customer, but I believe that the customer should be able to request small variations to the standard meals. Nevertheless, I asked with some trepidation:

“Cassie, could I please have the toast on top of the eggs, as I prefer to eat all the toast first, and it is easier that way.”

I was expecting her to explode, but she did not bat an eyelid.

“Since you were last here, we have started doing “Dessert of the day, £1.80. Would you like one?”

I said that I would, and she called the order through to the kitchen.

“Paul, one upside-down poached eggs on toast, and one upside-down cake.”

Jigjag, thanks for both posts.

I fervently hope that 'batters' sinks into oibscurity, where it belongs. I don't think 'batteress' will ever come about, and I'd prefer fewer '-esses' anyway. The silliness, changing 'third man' and other technical/sporting terms is a piece of arrant nonsense we should all resist.


The cricket knowledge, any other sporting knowledge, I have gleaned over the years has probably COME from crosswords! I expect I was baffled the first time I encountered some of the terms.

I enjoyed hearing about your breakfast outing, even if your chosen dish was a little .... odd. I was impressed - both with the cost and the actual offering - of the cafe's dessert of the day.

Malone

Yes, I also hope "batter" dies out. To me, it means something I make pancakes from. I suppose batteress does not sound quite right, perhaps "battress" would be better, though not much of an improvement.

I am glad you liked the cafe story. Prices are very reasonable, and the inflation of the last year or so, has not produced the huge increases I have seen elsewhere. There are still some amazing prices here. When I go to watch Everton, the cafe I use charges £1.50 for apple pie and cream - small portion though - and microwaved, so not great!

Jigjag, both 'batteress' and and 'battress' are inelegant words, very ungainly. If we ignore them, they might just go away.

It was good to hear you're encountering reasonable prices, I thought those were a thing of the past (post the pandemic and the fuel/energy crisis). I'm not a huge fan of apple pie, so the small prtion wouldn't bother me - the microwaving woud!