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theragman

14th November 2020, 12:23
The flaw in the puzzle really is that it can be completed without knowing the three-word phrase at all! It soon becomes rather obvious what is going on...
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drxx

14th November 2020, 13:08
Looking at this grid for a single letter change and a 4 letter string to highlight (as I did for hours!) is very like the needle in haystack approach - and I don't think the information we're given is helpful enough or accurate enough for that. We're not even sure that real words must result by the time we've reached the endgame.
Yes, it's obvious when all of the bits come together but I wouldn't bet against there being other possibilities for a single change / 4 letter string in the grid. I followed one possibility quite far, and reading the other thread suggests there's another wrong hunch in there.
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wintonian

14th November 2020, 13:19
Good to see that the paragraph introducing the puzzle follows the theme. It explains why there is no mention of our usual red reference volume.
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candledave

14th November 2020, 13:25
Agree drxx, I’m still hunting and very close to pulling up stumps as don’t enjoy long grid staring sessions.

Re-looking at the crossword, it’s a bit of a shame as there’s clearly been a lot of time and care taken in getting the right surface for the clues that include the thematic letter that then leave a workable clue behind.

However, if you’re anything like me, you just delete the letter without giving the clue much of a glance and although workable, the surface is then poor and, in many cases, it leaves behind a clue that one could easily find in a Times Quick Cryptic.

All a bit odd.

At least I have the numerical puzzle to look forward to!
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jif73

14th November 2020, 13:56
I printed tatters download at 17:25 Friday and completed filling the grid at 21:45.

Thanks to the hint from drxx (post 22) I got two words of the thematic phrase but not the third. I struggled on to Noah Vale (just the other side of Wild Goose Chase) until 02:50 this morning.

Picking up the puzzle after a trip to the newsagent's to pick up – and pay for! – the Saturday Times, I spotted the four-letter thematic word immediately, mirabile dictu...

My beef is that the puzzle's title ought to have a question mark OR the preamble should say the three-word phrase cryptically represents the title, NOT the other way round.

(By the way, will someone kindly remind me what a PDM is? I'll write it down this time...)
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drxx

14th November 2020, 13:58
Another reason might be accuracy, wintonian - there are two entries for the thematic 'thing' in that volume. We've been (literally) affected by entry 2 - not entry 1 - when filling in the grid but it's entry 1 that we need for the theme.

candledave, I'm not sure what part you're stuck on but if you want a nudge post on the other thread and I'll try to help.
I'm looking forward to next week's numerical too, I'll be glad of a weekend off.
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loge

14th November 2020, 13:59
Jif, PDM = penny drop moment. Agree with your comments about the title.
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jif73

14th November 2020, 14:01
Good spot, wintonian. Well done for continuing the theme in your post!
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drxx

14th November 2020, 14:02
jif73 - 'Penny-Drop-Moment' (usually a clunk, this week a tinkle).
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smellyharry

14th November 2020, 23:19
Getting frustrated now. 45 minute gridfill, 2 hours of thinking / grid staring. Now reduced to hoping for a blinding flash of inspiration from somewhere. Havent read the rest of the comments yet as still trying to finish unaided but suspect I am not alone. Hoping by posting I will release some frustration and inspiration will strike.
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