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Thanks everyone, will study all the very helpful posts in depth, however, I feel that tis is one that is just going to be consigned to the bin as I really am not getting it at all. Many thanks

Manic Mary, if you’re still looking in, for sure this is a bit of a slog with, in my view, a few too many obscure words. However there are clues to the theme e.g. 4dn (google it) and my advice would be to solve what down clues you can, the first half dozen are straightforward, get 1ac (can=fire from job) then13ac, 11ac, both anagrams. The lost letters make a three word phrase, from the same source as 4dn. Guess this and then you have the letters to add to the wordplay for each.

The complication is that in eight clues the definitions and wordplay don’t match. Leave sorting them to later. You should by now know what the “lost” land is at 15dn.

Apologies if this amount of help upsets anyone but I think folk should be encouraged to persevere rather than give up.

I haven't any objections teenieleek but I was initially confused by your 'google it' tip - then I realised you meant the first three words of the clue itself, not the answer (well spotted!)

Hi Mary

You can e-mail me

stuarttiffin@yahoo.com

for help.

A slog! I now have everything sorted out and a full grid, but it niggles when a puzzle can be finished without everything cleared up.

Specifically:

> where is the definition of the entry at 21dn? The only one of the exiled eight that I haven't been able to account for in full is 14, but if its first two words are the definition required then I'm stumped;

> what is the significance of 'I predict' in 27? It looks as if it ought to go with 7, but that's not one of the eight (and has its own, rather lame, definition anyway).

This is the first EV I have had chance to look at for six weeks and I could have wished for a more gentle re-introduction. I now have two clues left. 11 across - Insidiously creep round right zone with the booty boys? 8 letters , two words. I have PR?ECOE? with I unclued but suspect I could be wrong somewhere. 27 down - Par for the surfer's course, I predict diver. 5 letters. I have ?NORM and can find only enorm which would fit. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.

Hi alwayspuzzled - I too find 27 a mystery (although it's one of the eight, so the def of ENORM is elsewhere).

For 11, the anagrind is 'insidiously' - not a very good one, alas - and you need to get rid of the O that you have, after which all may fall into place.

I've just looked in Chambers for 'tangle', so that's one of my queries answered!

Thank you Saoralba. I will go back to the drawing-board for 5 down which is where the erroneous O came from. I have SK?A? for that now.

Thank you all for being so supportive and helpful, particularly offering an email link, however, I am just too dispirited with it all and am so far away from this setters wave-length I feel I am entering the first circle of Dante's Hell....abandon Hope all who enter here. Will await next week's.

Always puzzled - 5dn - definition grub as in food (slang), informers reversed.