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Well, what a weekend!. For the umpteenth week running there has been a considerable amount of flack flying around in the Listener Threads.

What is it with the Listener? This single crossword causes me far more trouble than all the other crosswords put together. The other threads poddle along quite nicely with minimum input from me but not the Listener

It is obvious that the original intention of providing Answers in the Answers Thread hasn’t worked as it was intended, instead this Thread has turned into an in-depth discussion thread and those asking for answers have been given short shrift.

So I am changing tack again this week and have decided to allow 3 Threads for a trial period to see what happens, as follows :-

(1) Gentle Hints Thread – No Answers
(2) Extra Help Needed – No Answers
(3) Answers Only – No Discussions

In agreement with Malone, I will post the Threads on Friday and I would ask you to please read the preambles on all 3 Threads.

Also, please behave yourselves and give me a peaceful weekend – I deserve it! Ash doesn't pay me enough for the hours I put in on a 'normal' weekend😢

👍hope this satisfies most people. They can just look at what they want as long as they’re forewarned in the preamble.
Think the Spurs fans still need an extra thread 😜

Thanks for the update, Norah, and thanks for your continued efforts in trying to establish a happy state of affairs.

The Listener has always been regarded as a rather 'special' puzzle, though I don't think 'special' is the word you'd have used when ploughing through this weekend's discussions!

I am quite happy to see how the three threads trial goes. It'd be good if we had fewer arguments and the threads just ran themselves like many of the other crosswords do. Fingers crossed!

Simplesimon, so does Derby County, Chesterfield FC, Buxton and Macclesfield after Robbie Savage took over but they're not getting them😂

Malone, thanks for your support, we can hope that there is something for everyone but I dare say someone will find something to complain about, watch this space.

Guess it’s just the 3 then 😢

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but what EXACTLY is the difference between "gentle hints" and "extra help"? As far as I can see, the problem is, and always has been, the posting of answers. There is a site called "ANSWER BANK" and they DO NOT POST ANSWERS!!!, and homage to them. There is a subtle difference between "help" and "answers", the former is to assist, the latter being "to provide a solution". At the risk of inflaming the wrath of the righteous purists on the other site why don't those seeking answers start a thread on the "ANSWER" site, and those wanting help use the crossword "HELP" forum - but like I say, I can be a bit thick.

I often ask for help as forum users will know...
My view is if you need instant answers, then do a crossword like eg Guardian, Mon to Fri, where you can press 'Reveal this' anytime you like.
Don't do Listener or IQ.
Easy!

Gitto and Lumen, well said ! If you ask for help or answers on the Answerbank, be prepared to be ignored or thrown off !

I fully sympathize with Norah - this is getting very complicated. When two threads were established, the second one was ANSWERS (IF REQUESTED) This week when someone requests an answer, there was a revolt. Basically, as many have already stated, the vast majority of people don’t want answers but hints - gentle at first then stronger as time goes on. There is no pleasure in my opinion in being given an answer on a plate.
For me one thread was ideal with people told not to give answers. However there was a problem when some hints were far too obvious , especially when relating to the theme.
Interested to see how this now develops
Incidentally AnswerBank has a lot of answers ,maybe not to Listener crosswords - where it seems to be a general discussion nowadays, but to many others.

This reminds me a bit of when I was a newbie on the Times Jumbo Cryptic forum on this site many years ago, and innocently asked what the etiquette was about submitting one's solution by mail for a potential prize, when one had had help, even answers, from the forum - on the analogy of the winning Olympic marathon runner collapsing yards short of the finish, being helped over the line by a sympathetic spectator - and being thus disqualified; I rather assumed that if one accepted help in solving, one should in all conscience refrain from competing for the prizes - but I wanted confirmation.
Instead of any reasoned response, I was mercilessly flamed by some of the established contributors as a hypocritical goody-goody - rescued by kinder interventions notably from Jazzgirl and Mamya - enduring gratitude - but I never DID get a proper answer.

What do contributors to the Listener thread think?
Should one only submit entries to the prize competition if one has scrupulously stayed clear of the hints/'answers' threads before mailing?
Or:
can one treat such consultation as morally equivalent to using Chambers, anagram solvers, and Wikipedia - which all appear ethically acceptable? - the Listener would be impossible to solve at all in many cases if these resources weren't tacitly allowed.

I have to confess that I do submit every week that I can (some, especially the numericals, defeat me).
Mea culpa?