Hi CD & Loge. CD I tried those names this morning and got nowhere. However, when I put the first name in with a VERY relevant second word I got straight to a relevant link - he was brilliant. Thankfully I am now 100% sure of my (logical) guess at the 4 letter perimeter clue. Loge, thanks for letting me understand 32a. The frustration and angst of these more difficult challenges soon fades away as the PDM emerges.