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ivorytickler

18th July 2016, 07:08
I am new to this site but have much enjoyed reading posts. I have completed this very satisfying Listener but am puzzled by the clue to 35a. Surely it should read "... ON the wagon" - not "... off the wagon"?
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dryden

18th July 2016, 07:37
Ivory tickler, if you check 'wagon' in Chambers you'll see that either 'on' or 'off' can be used.
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ivorytickler

18th July 2016, 07:48
Thanks, Dryden. Chambers seems to be a bit ambiguous. It says:
"ON (or OFF) THE WAGON - abstaining (or no longer abstaining) from alcohol."
I interpret that to mean that the "(or OFF)" in brackets corresponds to the part of the definition in brackets. Certainly that is how I have always understood the phrases.
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dryden

18th July 2016, 07:50
Heisenberg, that's the defence I expect the setter might make, but I don't think it's an entirely satisfactory one. If I'd have been asked to find some ****S in the initial grid I'd have spotted three of the six very quickly because they are all familiar to me, and nothing covers them up.

I'm not trying to trash the puzzle. I enjoyed it, especially many of the clues, which struck me as better than those we often get with fairly easy puzzles. I just think it's a pity those three items were not obscured in the way that the other three were. It may be that consistency in the disposal of those thematic items was impossible in a symmetrical grid, though given the huge choice available I'd find that surprising. If it wasn't possible I think this is one of those occasions when an asymmetrical grid would be preferable if it solved the problem.
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heisenberg

18th July 2016, 08:42
Of those three I thought only one really stood out before the treatment (I had to double-check the other two), but perhaps you're more used to looking for wood than I am. :) The shortness of the other two suggested to me that grid construction was challenging. Agreed, it was a very nice puzzle, and a welcome relaxing few hours after last week's double Playfair beast.
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dryden

18th July 2016, 09:53
Yes, you're right, ivorytickler. I think the clue should have used 'on the wagon'.
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dryden

18th July 2016, 10:11
Does anyone else think that the highlighting requirement raises some issues? Which cells to highlight seemed obvious at first, but now I'm less sure.

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ivorytickler

18th July 2016, 10:42
Thanks, Dryden.
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meursault

18th July 2016, 13:20
Dryden, the preamble states that 6 examples must be highlighted and I found 6 (albeit 2 of only 2 letters each) all standing vertically and spanning, or having contact with, the empty cells. Surely these must be the 6 to be highlighted ? Wouldn't it be contrary to the spirit of the source to have a horizontal lovely, ie one that has been chopped down and is now dead, included among the living ?
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dryden

18th July 2016, 14:21
Meursault, that's not what I meant, but I was very vague, so my meaning was unclear. I assume the highlighting of the three that span the removed item should include the empty cells, but perhaps not. If that is required, the perhaps the three other empty cells could be candidates for highlighting for reasons I gave earlier.

I still have memories of that gallows puzzle a while back, when it seemed obvious to me that the right thing to do was to draw the gallows with all the bits joined up. Instead, the official solution showed a DIY kit that would have fallen apart. I very nearly stopped sending in entries at that point.
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