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smithsax

10th August 2023, 07:19
I thought the clues high quality and some very difficult despite being only 4 letters.
There was no trial and error for me. I only entered letters when I was sure they were correct, though I made a couple of careless errors and had to restart.
You can enter some letters or at least narrow down options immediately without having to solve multiple clues. For instance if the letter is I the middle letter of the code triplet is C. E always has a triplet starting with A or G. Every time you solve a clue you can add a few more bits of the grid and what you have helps with further solving.
All of this has nothing to do with sodoku which despite using a similar grid pattern works by very different rules.
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jeg

10th August 2023, 07:32
This must be a record number of posts for a puzzle. It’s a shame that the AB only has 10 but I notice that the Listener Forum on Facebook has got 31 comments. This has to be the best puzzle for quite a long time. Thank you Cagey.
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jugular

10th August 2023, 07:37
OK, I finally got there. Endgame understood, source understood, unclued word relevance to the endgame understood. Everything looks fine except I still have a possibility of two (coded) letters at the intersection of 'd' and 'u'. Anyone else with the same irritating anomaly?
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drxx

10th August 2023, 08:48
Even I managed to notice most of the steps you mention, smithsax, and my wife introduced me to several other, ''If x is this and y is that then...'' moments that, at times, had me confused beyond belief (my wife could be very good at sudoku but she doesn't enjoy it - she didn't enjoy it in triplicate three times as much).
On the subject of pure logic v guesswork, I'd simply ask, is this logical path a particularly difficult one for someone in my position, armed only with pencil and paper? Does it help a great deal to have electronic devices to work through it?
You see, I keep coming across this disconnect - whenever I raise an objection on the grounds of difficulty I'm constantly being reassured that ,'No, it's really no problem at all, just simple logic, I worked it out on the back of a fag packet...' but this wasn't my experience and it clearly wasn't the experience of most solvers who crossed the finishing line exhausted.
My 'guesswork' approach paid off reasonably well because I'd solved all of the clues and could use the extra letters to my advantage. I could narrow down the alphabetical order of the codes by making words in the message. My first 'guesswork' mistake didn't offer much in the way of words but my next attempt got close enough so that I pretty much had the message at that point.
On the message - I can't believe that anyone getting the message would be unable to complete the grid but, as has already been mentioned, we're unable to prove it at the finish, and that really is a problem.
Carry on rooting for it but please don't involve me in the process any further - I have a completely different opinion of it.
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drxx

10th August 2023, 08:54
Of course we can prove that we didn't follow the message through to the end, but we have a 50/50 chance of getting away with it - as jugular is about to find out.
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simond9x

10th August 2023, 09:11
drxx - I think it's you that keeps involving yourself in the process. I solved it just using pencil, paper, Chambers and logic. I crossed the finished line exhausted but only because of the sheer concentration required to keep following the logic path. I didn't try solving the message until everything else was complete (apart from the one anomaly that the message resolves). I use electronic aids to help solve numericals but this one was pure logic, mostly along the lines that your wife mentioned 'If x is this and y is that then...''.
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granama1

10th August 2023, 09:19
Isn't the intersection between 'd' and 'u' one of the givens in the grid, ie 'A'?
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drxx

10th August 2023, 09:29
simond9x - I have been constantly rebuked for failing to enjoy this puzzle, sometimes quite aggressively. If you think I should have just let it go and not respond then you don't know me at all.
You've now pretty much accused me of being someone who delights in being spotlighted - I do not.
I can see that there is a disconnect, and it possibly comes from how we arrive at a conclusion. I can see that your way of completing the puzzle would be preferable to mine in terms of satisfaction, but I would rather you'd kept to the point without the personal remark, I didn't appreciate that at all.
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drxx

10th August 2023, 09:31
granama1 - looks like I did a smithsax and skimmed jugular's post expecting the obvious ambiguity - sorry about that.
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simond9x

10th August 2023, 09:48
drxx - It certainly wasn't mentioned as a personal slight so apologies if that's how it was taken. It was just an observation that, whenever anyone says anything complimentary about the puzzle, you respond to it with an opposing view. I wasn't suggesting you that delight in being in the spotlight, just that you could drop out of the process any time you choose to. I understand, and welcome, the different views expressed on this Forum.
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