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jif73

19th July 2021, 14:37
loge, this PDM of which you speak... Would it be out of order to ask on this thread if it involves merely looking at the grid and considering the 90 degree symmetry, the fact that down clues do not seem to be in "normal order", and that there are only 40 clues but 52 entries in the final grid OR did you need to solve a lot of clues before you got there?
I've cold-solved 18 clues (only one of which has an extra word) and I've hit a brick wall. Trying not to look at the other thread but...
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loge

19th July 2021, 15:20
Jif, I don't think it's giving too much away to say that solving the wordplay from the four extra words was what brought enlightenment, along with carefully considering the meaning of all of the penultimate sentence of the preamble. I didn't count the clues and therefore didn't notice the discrepancy, and I'm not very good with symmetry so that didn't help me at all. And yes, I had solved a lot of clues before realising what was going on, but I'm not sure that's all that relevant.

One solver has managed to complete the grid without understanding what the four extra words lead to (at least at the time he/she posted). I would never have been able to do that, but obviously it must be possible.

Any more than this really does need to go on the other thread, I think. I hope this is of some help (and doesn't overstep the spoiler mark).
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smellyharry

19th July 2021, 16:41
Jif - the down clues are in normal order. Ignore the 52 for now. You can work out almost entirely the starting conventional 40 clue grid from the clue order and the 90 degree symmetry. Once you have that and 6 to 10 answers it quickly becomes apparent which clues are jumbled and which are conventional. I then guessed how the 52 entries would work quite early on and then it's fairly straight forward.
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umanna

19th July 2021, 16:52
Loge, thank you so much! Your advice to look again at the penultimate line of the preamble put me over the line. I take back everything I muttered about you describing it as a 2 hour romp. :)
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will37

20th July 2021, 12:00
Well, Loge, here's another solver who has completed the grid with 52 entries all of which are real words without any idea as to the significance of the four extra words removed from clues.

I'd kept returning to the puzzle and something of a possible arrangement was starting to appear but I was stuck on the "Younger policemen ..." clue or, more accurately, 2 letters of it. Just before I turned in last night I consulted Anne E. Bradford (Peace be upon her!) and found the word immediately. The whole thing then fell into place. I would never have married up that word with the definition in the clue unaided.

Now a couple of days off before we start the whole thing again.
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