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drxx

16th July 2020, 14:51
...sorry for the typo, throck.
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drxx

16th July 2020, 16:41
I think I've found a way of satisfying the preamble... although it isn't very satisfying, so I'll finish off my part of the discussion and move on.
The preamble suggests there's an ingenious endgame here but, unfortunately, I haven't found it - and it will have to be pretty spectacular to leave real words throughout the grid!
My concern here is that certain words in the preamble are of the 'stretchy' kind ('Leaving [real words]', 'keeping in mind', cryptically represented' etc) and without doing much more than filling the grid and dealing with the conjoined 'interrupters' in the most obvious way, most of the instructions have been met (and, perhaps, all of them).
I was hoping to do something in the silver section (with its full complement of '40 letters', as per the preamble) that would make the cryptic representation linear, but still have the correct synonyms - or new ones - as real words around it, and (best of all) make real words from the jumbled across entries.
I'll look in here from time to time in the hope someone manages it - because it's a very long time to wait for the published solution! Still, it will be well worth the wait (unless this is a GWIT type of puzzle - one that hinges on how we've interpreted the preamble... which has been my route, to be honest).
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throck

16th July 2020, 17:39
Ah. yes, I should have spotted how the silver squares work much more rapidly, given my affection for what is hinted at by the overlaps. I can still see no way of using the title, or of ending up with real words only. Plenty of time, though -- I might put it away in a drawer for a week and try a fresh look then.
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throck

16th July 2020, 17:49
Surely it's not just that row 5 is treated by removing one muddled protagonist, leaving real words there but jumbles elsewhere? From drxx's dissatisfaction, I fear that might be it -- if so, I'm not exactly gruntled either.
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greengage

17th July 2020, 06:46
Apologies for absence, travelling yesterday. Will catch up and respond, thanks to all participants.
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greengage

17th July 2020, 07:03
Thanks again for all thoughts. My view after much toing and froing is that the title simply draws attention to the fact that the removal of the letters of 'shelter' from row 5 would - rather than does - leave a jumbled agonist and that the removal of the overlapping agonists ldoes leave real words across at the ends and the down entries no longer interrupted other than by empty cells. The 'silver 40' are wonderfully ingenious. For me, just right in terms of 'solubility' so thanks to Nimrod.
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drxx

17th July 2020, 11:22
Thanks, greengage - sadly, that resolution is what I find disappointing about the puzzle (but I'm still hoping there's a spectacular alternative).

When solvers are toing and froing and adding phrases to the preamble, it's often a bad sign, I think - 'simply draws our attention to' and 'would... does' are a bit 'stretchy' when the title of the puzzle gives such a clear command - ''No Shelter in Row 5.'' But you're right - we can't obey the command (in either direction - literally or figuratively) without ruining the endgame, because any letters removed from the silver section would destroy what is, 'cryptically represented by the 40 letters'. I agree, the silver section is good, but could it be even better (I'm still hopeful)?
I'd have preferred a specific reference to 'ignoring empty cells...' in the preamble (but I have done, of course) so that's another little problem for me.
Perhaps I'm missing Schadenfreude more than I knew (I always felt confident seeing that name alongside a title) and I need to forge ahead.
This was certainly a challenge and I enjoyed it very much, but...
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om1957

20th July 2020, 11:34
Baffled by row 3. I think I have the second part, but can't get anywhere with the first. Does the "overlap" mean that the end of the first part is the beginning of the second?
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drxx

20th July 2020, 12:05
om1957 - the preamble helps by stating that the two overlong answers 'overlap... so they interrupt crossing answers', so where you've got gaps in the down entries you must have an overlap of letters of equal number (X number from the end of one and X number from the front of the next) but it doesn't say they're the same letters.

For the clue, 'singer' is the def (but it's not the obvious def).
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om1957

20th July 2020, 13:08
Thanks drxx. Still having trouble getting my head round it but will keep trying.
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