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aristophanes

30th December 2019, 22:12
Oh, and even elderly people, of both sexes, go there. It used to be practically free to belong, but ours is quite expensive.
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rosalind

30th December 2019, 23:43
I just checked, in London there seems to be both hostels and "Central London's largest gym". Never knew that - I always thought of the Y as providing cheap accommodation and spiritual support.
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simond9x

31st December 2019, 11:05
Thanks for the explanations. It does ring a vague bell that Y can mean a gym over the pond. Not sure I've ever heard it used in a British context but this IS a US crossword. I was blinkered by "a pub over" being A+P reversed as PA, which left me puzzling over why STY might mean a GYM. Doh!
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thepipesthepipes

6th January 2020, 17:44
Can anyone recommend a solving blog of some kind that goes into more detail than the WSJ provides? My wife and I just tried our hand at the Cryptic Crossword for the first time, and despite reading the WSJ's page explaining how the cryptic puzzle works, it's still fairly impenetrable to us. We understand how some of the solutions work, but not others.

For example:

21A. "Error in electing bum attractive to viewers" is solved as TEL(E)GENIC ("electing" anag.). First of all, adding an extra "e" means it is not, in fact, an anagram. We were pulling our hair out trying to find a nine letter answer, little did we know it's allowable to simple add letters whenever you please. Also, I see how TELEGENIC is pleasing to viewers, but where does "bum" fit in, here? Are we saying "error in electing" extends to "electing bum" because one might make the error of electing a "bum" because he/she is TELEGENIC? What is happening, here?

13D. "Taking in Rhode Island, said "Groovy"" is solved as ST(RI)ATED. Let's break this down. The abbreviation for Rhode Island is RI. "Taking in RI" would lead me to believe that taking--or a synonym of taking--will be contained "in" Rhode Island (or RI). Here it appears RI is contained "in" "said." So "said" is "taking in RI." Fair enough. But by putting "Groovy" in quotes after the word "said," the cluer seems to be directly linking those two words, "said" and "Groovy," where in fact "Groovy" is the separate clue meant to represent the entirety of the solution, and "said" is merely "stated." This strikes me as wildly confusing, and never in my lifetime would I have come up with it on my own. Preposterous. Can someone shed some light on this type of cluing?

15D. Made fast time, ultimately, in low road" is solved as "MOORED" MOO+R(E)D." I totally don't understand this one. Moored, to me, means tied down, as a ship in harbor. Where is "moo" coming from? Why is an "e" inserted into Rd. (which I'm understanding to be the abbr. for "road," but why "low?")? Really can't wrap my head around this one.

17D. "Beer put outside by trucker's bar?" is solved as A(X)LE. So...an ale is a beer, and a trucker's "bar" is a truck's axle. Sure. Hate it, but I'll take it. Where is the "X" coming from? Is the word "put" being used in a way that human beings don't use it? Is "X" somehow meant to contain in it the meaning "outside," because of the prefix "ex?" What is happening?

The QUEST ones I didn't even dare approach. It's enough trying to parse the solutions I can place on the board.

One big question/complaint I have is how are we to know when an entire word will simply be represented by a single letter? Examples: A for Area (OK, math term, sure), T for Time (are we saying that's a math usage, too?), P for phosphorus (periodic table, ugh). I'm not saying these aren't acceptable abbreviations in some use cases, but to know when the cluer is intending those use cases, one would think you'd have to be in their head.

Needless to say this puzzle was deeply frustrating to us, but I think there may be some shift in our approach that could clear it up. We do the NYTimes crossword daily, and perhaps our brains are stuck in that realm. Any help is appreciated.

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thepipesthepipes

6th January 2020, 17:51
Ah, I forgot 10A. Pa+Ella. I get the Ella part from reading posts, here. But the Pa part? I'm assuming it has something to do with PA being letters or "participants" in the word "pair?" Is that right? So very confused by this.
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malone

6th January 2020, 18:02
Hello, thepipeā€¦ - I've taken the liberty of shortening your name!

There were some interesting points in your original email.

In 17 D, the 'by' gives you the X - it's common in crosswords, so I didn't give it a second thought!

15 D. Moored = made fast, tied up. Moo = low, what cows do, Rd is road and the E comes from 'time ultimately', ie use the last letter. So we get Moo r ed.

13 D seems fine too. The comma in the sentence is there to distract us, and should be ignored really. 'Taking in Rhode Island said' lead me to put the RI in Stated. The quotation marks round Groovy give another chance to ignore punctuation - somethings that's usually specifically mentioned in these puzzles. Instead of thinking 'groovy, cool, hip...' need groovy, with grooves.
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malone

6th January 2020, 18:12
Thepipe, I'm back...

Your query 'how are we to know when an entire word will simply be represented by a single letter?' puzzled me a little. This device, usage is so common in crosswords, I'm sure many solvers could rattle off whole lists of various ones!

You say you do the NY Times crossword daily. Is that a cryptic one? I think the British crosswords are far more likely to be cryptic - the WSJ is a treat for us, as we don't normally see that. The American crosswords I saw last time I was there looked rather unappealing - very busy grids with lots of short words, and the clues seemed to be mainly general knowledge, facts.
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malone

6th January 2020, 18:26
Thepipeā€¦ I'm enjoying working on these!

In 21 A, I think the E is an abbreviation for 'Error'. It doesn't appear as such in my three English/British dictionaries, so it's extremely unlikely it'd appear in a British crossword. E = error was confirmed online, maybe UK solvers, here on the Forum, assumed it was fine in American puzzles? The rest of the clue works quite well- 'Error in electing' leads to putting an 'e' in 'electing', 'bum' = it's an anagram, so we get to Telegenic, attractive to viewers. British crosswords have literally dozens of these things, anagram indicators - including pants, rubbish, tortured, ruined... and that's just off the top of my head.

PS You can tell I'm a fan of cryptic puzzles - the more cryptic the better!
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thepipesthepipes

7th January 2020, 02:00
Thanks for all your help, Malone. Your responses elucidate a fact I felt might be true, but wasn't sure of, and that is these puzzles skew somewhat British. NY Times crossword puzzles are, indeed, rather drab in their clueing compared to the WSJ, at least as far as crypticness is concerned. Just as I'm quite adept at NY Times crosswords from years of practice, I presume I could develop the skill of deciphering cryptic clues...but I don't know that I have the patience to try.
Thanks again!
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thepipesthepipes

7th January 2020, 02:01
Also...E for Error? In what use case? This one seems like a stretch. (Well, to me, they all do, but this one is special.)
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