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skyewalker

31st July 2019, 19:27
Nice one, Ginge! Very clever. Cheers, Aristo.
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tyke51

31st July 2019, 20:05
Nice one Ginge - good word choice Aristo, enjoyed the clip!
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fieryjack

31st July 2019, 20:18
Congratulations Ging
Cheers Aristo and thanks for the mention
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mattrom

31st July 2019, 21:15
Well done, Ginge. Having tried (and given up on) composing a clue with a similar structure - hats off to you!
Thanks to Mr A for an interesting challenge and the kind mention. Scary clip. I think I'd be ditching my handbag and high heels a lot earlier than our heroine.
Steve, 'ff' certainly is an elusive beast. I could only find this as to actual usage

https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/ff-1
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skyewalker

31st July 2019, 21:27
(Apologies, Aristo, for failing to thank you for your sincerely appreciated mention. Too much going on!)
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kt17

31st July 2019, 22:38
@SteveA -

'ff' was new to me too and like Mattrom I wanted to understand - Professor Google is little help.

The OED (1971) says:

"In MSS a capital F was often written as ff."

It continues " A misunderstanding of this practice has caused the writing of Ff or ff at the beginning of certain family names, e.g. Ffiennes, Ffoulkes."

Thusly, maybe ff was used cursively for F - presumably as it was easier with a quill pen.

Thereforth it perhaps became idiomatic and in usage amongst the writing classes, who would have used it (ff) to abbreviate common expressions like 'Fecerunt'.

Later interpreters, amongst them the Fiennes and the Foulkes families, then later still the Chambers dictionary people, looked back on the linguistic record and added two and two to make five?

Just a theorem!

For Ffoulkes sake!


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stevea6000

31st July 2019, 23:06
@mattrom/kt17: thanks for trying so hard to explain it to me, but I'll have to remain in the dark on this.
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kt17

31st July 2019, 23:17
@SteveA, I don't think you're at all in the dark. If anything, you have created light...

My take is that Aristo's challenge has, serendipitously, thrown up an interesting etymological oddity which you rightly questioned.

If you hadn't asked I wouldn't have learned.

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ginge

31st July 2019, 23:40
Many thanks aristo, I certainly don't think any less of you or your abilities. My surprise was you not having seen ff in relation to works of art as you've previously shown your considerable expertise in both Latin and objects trouvés.
@ stevea & kt17. Firstly stevea, let me apologise for my presumption that you own a Chambers. I couldn't envisage any serious setter or solver not having just because I find "it" essential; again my misconception. To end any further speculation it is as mentioned by both aristo and mattrom (again I'm grateful to you for providing the example, however the additional uses may have inadvertently confused) and it won't be seen in a sentence it will be placed next to the names of the originators of said piece(s). I think if you compare it to pp (per procurationem : by proxy) when signing on behalf of someone else.
However, the kind words are appreciated as ever and hopefully we'll see most, if not all of you, next week.
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ginge

31st July 2019, 23:43
Bloody predictive text, objets trouvés.
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