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Hi drxx, you've totally lost me.

We're all entitled to our opinion but I thought this was a very good puzzle, tough(ish) clues, no ambiguity as I could see with the 11 extra/9 missing letters from wordplay, the 11 synonyms (though a couple were new to me in this context) and by default the 8 normal clues. The endgame was straightforward once the anagram was solved with the route self-checking. Again in my opinion, a far better puzzle than either Listener or EV this weekend where the grid fills were (ridiculously ?) easy.

Sorry ginge - I was lost too, if you'd like me to clarify my ramblings I will oblige.

I agree with you regarding the quality of the puzzle but I think there are a few ambiguities leading to valid answers (and, in a puzzle where there are three clueing devices, that can be a bit irksome).

R is the finish of the route, not the start, jogamel. Taken in the obvious direction it spells out its name, as kobnut outlines in #25.

Ginge, I think drxx may be seeing anagrams where none exist. I would venture he is taking "unintelligible" as a meaning of Greek in the "soprano" clue to give an anagrind. But "Greek mistress" is surely the definition, and the clue works as written, as long as you separate the A at the start. A + SPAI (N) + A, with S in it.

I enjoyed Nudd's Listener, but agree that this was excellent and a good challenge

Hi again drxx, I wasn't sure if you were looking for clarification of anything, glad you're happy.

....in fact, four - there are straight clues as well.

Hi quisling, nice to see someone in agreement, I don't think there's enough positive comments on good puzzles compared with negative ones. Due to the nature of the puzzle it would have been difficult to give advise early on to those close to completion without spoiling it for those only looking for help with 1 or 2 clues hence the unusual step of providing my email address.

I found what I was looking for ginge - but the word appears to belong with the definition (if you've worked out the clue in the same way, you'll know what I mean).

I'm still not entirely happy with the number of ambiguities I've found but they seem to have passed you by, so it's hard to discuss them with you ('hard' - now there's an overused word!).

Thank you quisling - it certainly works without the anagrind - but it also works using (as you say) 'Greek' as an anagrind.
And there is a semicolon before the final part of the entry in Chambers for that answer which, I think, obviates the need for 'Greek' in the definition.

This kind of ambiguity happens, of course, but I think it happens too often in this puzzle.

Apologies for dragging this down to basics, but this is the first time I have attempted this crossword. Could anyone give me some advice as to how to approach it? The instructions are pretty baffling. Thanks

somerset - Concentrate on the first part of the instructions until the grid is filled - only bother with the (a) (b) (c) (d) sections after that (and then come back to this thread).

Devise a way of keeping tabs on the 4 different clue types - perhaps O+ and O- around the dots at the start of the clues that have extra/minus letters in them - draw a line through the straight clues and maybe an 'X' for those clues with words removed (be prepared to change your mind, so do it faintly). Count them at the end to ensure you have the right number of each type. It might be worth keeping track of the O- letters in the grid as you go.

Remember, the clues are given in normal crossword order - only the numbers have been omitted. The grid has symmetry, so if your first across entry in the top row has 6 letters and starts from the first square, the last across entry in the bottom row will also have 6 letters but it will end in the last square of the row.

I hope this isn't too basic. Good luck.