Crossword Help Forum
Forum Rules

In view of recent discussions on the giving of answers, we are trialling a new system for a few weeks with one thread dedicated solely to the giving of answers. Forum members who do not want to see answers are forewarned and need to avoid it like the plague.

It is obvious that some of our members feel very strongly about seeing answers revealed but this is a helpful site, and some members may occasionally need more than hints or nudges.

It would be great if the 'hints' thread proved a valuable resource and that it encouraged newer solvers ... who in turn could help the people following on behind them.

We will continue to have two threads, one for discussion\hints and the other dedicated solely to answers. It could well be that, in the fullness of time, the ANSWERS thread will be extended to include all crosswords but for the trial period it will be solely for the Listener.

That's crystal clear, but just one question: will the "answers only" thread also include more explicit (but not direct) hints to the theme? I'm thinking of something like:

Me: Help! I still can't find the thematic hero's partner after a week of grid staring!

Helpful poster: She's in Column 7 of the grid.

A hint like that might be too strong for the other thread but is the kind of help we've given each other in the past.

Loge, I had originally intended that the Answers thread was for just for answers to stop the complaints that occurs when Answers appear in the Hints thread.

It could be practicable to put strong hints to the theme in the Answers thread but Forum users must be aware they could see Answers to clues they might not wish to see. As I said, you enter the Answers thread at your peril.

I'm trying to help as many Forum users as possible to enjoy the Listener, Answers weren't welcome in the Hints thread so a dedicated Answers thread seemed one way round the problem.

It's a bit of trial and error at the moment.

Thanks Norah. “Enter at your peril” sums it up perfectly. It will be interesting to see how much the answers thread is used. I prefer to give and receive hints so I’m unlikely to be looking in on it unless we get a “hare” puzzle with an ambiguous endgame, but I think you have found the best possible solution to the “how much” issue. Let’s hope it can now be laid to rest.

I have to say that I am not a fan of this approach. I have been a member of this forum for many years and have observed the debate about what constitutes fair play repeatedly emerge and subside. This feels heavy handed and to me, it is fundamentally wrong to encourage giving answers. I will no longer participate if this is the way forward.

Norah, when I was at school I was educated in a subject in the vain hope that I may eventually pass an exam. It would have abrogated the need for education if I had been supplied with the answers before sitting the exam. The provision of answers is fundamentally wrong and the encouragement to find the right answer by additional HELP is fundamentally correct. The basic flaw in having the two threads is that one can look at the answer on one and give a hint on the other, and as proven in the past, some of those hints may as well spell out the answer. I also think that the setters, who create these brilliant puzzles, must cringe each time they see an answer appear, sometimes even before the crossword is published. Finally, the name of the thread, answers only, does not specify how many answers may be provided, so if I supplied them all I would not be in breach of the theme of the thread.

A year or so back, I was an advocate of having two threads - not because I thought we needed a thread which gave answers but because I thought we needed a thread which didn't give answers. I'm not the world's greatest solver and sometimes I just need a gentle nudge to get me going again (although I never submit my solutions). There have been a few contributors who, even though it hadn't been asked for, would give an answer - sometimes in block capitals - which couldn't be missed when glancing through the thread. There was even one occasion last year where someone gave the entire theme and all the hidden words in the grid - again, all in block capitals - almost as a way of thinking out loud ("so I've got the theme which is XXXXXX and I've found all the hidden words which are XXXX, XXXX, XXXX and XXXX, but how do I.....?")

I must say that, more recently, most people have been really good at only giving hints. It's difficult to keep everyone happy. I don't like to see spoilers and can't see the point of being given an answer rather than a hint but I appreciate that people new to The Listener might need more than gentle nudges. Could we maybe adopt some kind of approach where, if someone does feel the need to give an actual answer, they type it in backwards so that it doesn't leap out at you when browsing the forum, or say that answers can only be given via PM? Or maybe say that answers can only be given after, say, Wednesday?

I do feel that having a thread entitled ANSWERS is perhaps not the best approach for a Prize puzzle. I still think we're better off politely encouraging people not to give explicit answers. Hey ho.....

There's been lots to read and digest since Norah gave details of the new formats.
As a keen crossworder, I always felt slightly odd starting off the 'May Contain Answers' threads. I'm more of a hints and nudges person. I reminded myself that the thread was necessary only because many people didn't want to come across answers in 'normal' Listener threads. Seeing a thread entitled 'Listener, Answers' is even scarier! I'd hope that it'd be a very rarely used thread, but one where the few answers given could be invaluable to new solvers.

Inquisitor and Enigmatic Variations are themed puzzles and are sometimes as difficult as (or more difficult) than Listeners. The Forum has had threads on these puzzles for a considerable time. It's usually only hints and nudges that are given. Answers do get posted from time to time - and the world doesn't stop turning! I think Norah's new threads are designed to try to keep variius factions happy - answers can be swerved completely if necessary, answers can be found if wanted.