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I don't know if it is me just being too suspicious, or perhaps there's some internal jealousy I harbour where I am envious of those who can solve The Times crossword so quickly. But when I go to the leaderboard in The Times Crossword club, I see many people on that leaderboard who appear to have solved The Times cryptic crossword in less than two minutes. I don't know about you, but even if I was able to solve the clues as soon as I read them, I still think it would take me more than two minutes to read the clue, and then enter my answer into the online grid.

What I think is happening is that some solve The Times cryptic crossword offline, which takes them a lot longer to do that 2 minuets. Once completed they then open a new window on their browser, go to the live crossword and enter the answers in from their offline puzzle. Furthermore, these people never appear to have made any mistakes with their answers.

Could my suspicious be right? Or are there genuinely people who can solve The Times cryptic crossword [I]regularly[/I] in under two minutes, and I'm just jealous that I am not that clever? :)

I think you are absolutely correct. They don’t even have to put in the effort off line to complete the solution, there are sites you can visit where the complete solution available

Those people are certainly cheating. The very best solvers, such as the pre-eminent Mark Goodliffe, could certainly be sub 5 mins on an easy puzzle, but much lower than 4 is not possible unless you know the answers already

To put it in context, a typical puzzle has 30 clues. 10 secs per clue, for reading and filling in, gives 5 mins.

I thought as much. It's always the same people too.

I don't see the point of cheating. They know in themselves that they did it dishonestly.

I often use the Chambers Crossword Dictionary to help me solve cryptic clues. I felt guilty at first for using it, even though I do cryptic crosswords purely for personal satisfaction. But then I read somewhere somebody say words to the effect of that using such a dictionary is not cheating as it does not contain the answers, but just helps you come to the correct answer. They also said that using such a dictionary is only cheating if you use it, then claim you didn't.

Quite right, but in any case I find the idea of sharing 'solving times' objectionable. For me, solving a puzzle means savouring the good clues, growling at the bad ones, parsing all the solutions to my satisfaction, and filling the grid. I have no desire to cut out the first three elements of this process, which are the ones that give me most entertainment, nor do I wish to rule out the possibility of a refreshment break.

If you are a novice and you are delighted to have completed a puzzle (albeit perhaps with a bit of help from this forum and the support of a few biscuits) in a single day, finding that someone else 'finished' it in 4 minutes 37 seconds is unlikely to make you more enthusiastic about starting the next puzzle. Indeed it could put you off ever trying to solve another puzzle. Please note that I've got no problem at all with opinions being expressed on relative difficulties - indeed when an expert solver says 'this was a tough one' it can be very reassuring to less-experienced solvers who found the puzzle completely impenetrable.

If people want to hold competitions specifically related to grid-filling speed, that's fine - but they can include me out!

PS far from constituting 'cheating', for me using a dictionary is part of the enjoyment of solving, whether confirming suspicions, discovering new words or finding new meanings of familiar words.

you could take 4 minutes 33 seconds and listen to john cage as you solved!

I quite agree, myrm, but everyone has a different idea of fun. Goodliffe has won the Times Crossword Competition 12 times in the last 13 years, I think. I believe he is Magoo on the Crossword Club leaderboard. Jason James, who is Jason, is another extremely fast solver, and would be a threat on easy puzzles. Mohn is also quick, as is glheard. I know those to be genuine, so they should give an idea of what is achievable fairly. I am not accusing anyone else of anything. You can draw your own conclusions. Worth pointing out that people may be quicker on paper than on a keyboard.

It seems to me much the same as competitively comparing times for completing a country walk, reading a book, or eating a slice of coffee and walnut cake.

It's just the same on the Daily Telegraph puzzles website. Every day someone solves the cryptic crosswords in about two minutes, inlcuding the Toughies. So I think it would be better if these websites did not display best times.

There is the old story of how the provost of Eton could solve the Times crossword in the same time it took him to boil an egg. But that was in the early days when the clues were not cryptic and maybe he liked his eggs hard boiled. So the story may well be true but I'm surprised he didn't have someone to boil his eggs for him or he didn't eat with the other staff.