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zinc

30th November 2019, 19:48
Sat Times 27,522
16a A masculine home counties boy gone up north?

The solution is DALESMAN and I understand how this is arrived at but can anyone enlighten me as to which part of the clue actually defines a Dalesman?
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spoffy

30th November 2019, 21:19
This is what is known as an '&lit' ('and literally so') or 'all-in-one' clue, where the whole clue serves as both wordplay and definition. A little more latitude is allowed in such clues when it comes to the definition element, and a question mark is often used at the end of the clue to indicate to solvers that it is more of an indication of the answer than a precise definition.

A classic example of an &lit would be Colin Dexter's clue for MAGIC LANTERN, "Item gran arranged family slides in?" (CLAN in an anagram of ITEM GRAN, &lit).
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zinc

30th November 2019, 22:41
Thanks Spoffy.

I've come across these before but I still don't see how a "Masculine Home Counties Boy gone up North" defines a Dalesman. OK - a Dalesman is masculine and he lives in the North but where does the Home Counties bit fit into the definition?

Am I missing something obvious here? I usually am!

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zinc

30th November 2019, 22:46
...or is the reference to Home Counties an irrelevance so far as the definition is concerned - the latitude to which you refer?
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scorpiojo

30th November 2019, 23:50
Lad (boy) SE (Home Counties) reversed (gone up north) man (masculine)
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zinc

1st December 2019, 09:28
Thanks Scorpiojo.

Yes, I get the relevance of Home Counties to the construct of the solution - it's how "Home Counties Boy" fits in to the overall definition that eludes me - this being an "&lit" clue. Ah well - I shan't lose any sleep over it.
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spoffy

1st December 2019, 09:55
It's generally accepted that in an &lit clue anything that doesn't expressly contradict the overall indication of the solution is (to a greater or lesser degree) acceptable. Here 'masculine' is superfluous but harmless, while strictly speaking 'home counties' is not redundant - since a dalesman is 'specifically a man of the dales of Yorkshire', something is needed to set the context of 'north' as 'the north of England'.

A well-constructed &lit is generally regarded to be the pinnacle of the clue writer's art, but for every gem there are a lot of pale imitations, which is one reason why I tend to refer to the cross between a definition and indication seen in such clues as a defication...
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zinc

1st December 2019, 10:51
Thanks again Spoffy. Most apt!
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