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I was stuck on 4D . The wording was" Soldier insect at sea" I had an idea that the key to the answer lay in the phrase "at sea" but could not see how soldier insect as the clues could get me there. However there were enough letters from other answers to strongly suggest that letters in "soldier insect had to be the answer and the clue it was an anagram of soldier insect was in the phrase "at sea".

However this means that the answer is also part of the clue. I don't think I have seen before in the RT crossword which is the only one I do and I had thought this was breaking a cardinal rule of crossword compilation

I'd be interested in other's comments on this

Thanks

mop

Hi mop
I had a question mark against that one too. If the first two words had been part of the definition, it would have been an "&lit" clue, but "Soldier insect" has nothing at all to do with the meaning.
I also had a question mark against 5d
Make-up of China's return (4)
This would have worked much better as an across than as a down.

If " Soldier insect at sea" is the entire clue given, I do not see a problem?
The answer is surely "directionless " = at sea (def)
it is an anagram of "soldier insect"

Hi elle
The problem is that "at sea" is both definition and anagram indicator.

Yes that being precisely my point I am not an experienced crossword solver and as I said I only do the RT but if I didn't think you can cover both the definition and clue to the definition in the phrase "at sea"

mop

Hi, Chris!
I am not very good at these "nuances" but I think I have come across this format before, where there is a specific term for the "set up"?

Having the same words doing two functions is generally known as "double duty", and is frowned upon. In this instance, if "at sea" is the definition, what is the anagram indicator?

I think "double duty" must be what I was thinking about.
I have come across it before……..but did not know it was "frowned upon".....

I've been looking for some kind of reference, but cannot find anything?
Do you have a "source"?

I think the specific term for this clue is 'faulty'. The fact that 'at sea' is doing double duty in a figurative sense for both wordplay and definition simply makes it worse.

A cryptic clue consists of a definition of the solution and a separate, alternative way of reaching that solution (normally a cryptic wordplay, but on occasion a second, distinct definition). The exception is an all-in-one (&lit) clue where the entire clue stands as the definition, such as Colin Dexter's classic "Item gran arranged family slides in" for MAGIC LANTERN (CLAN 'sliding into' an arrangement of ITEM GRAN).

This clue should read something like 'Soldier insect at sea, drifting' or, if you think 'at sea' can mean 'directionless' (which I don't), 'Soldier insect adrift at sea'.

I don't see what the problem is if the number of letters is 13 cryptic crossword or quizzes frequently use anagrams.
If it was only ten letters it coud be antarctic. However as it isn't stick with the anagram