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Trevor

I have been following this exchange from a safe distance behind some sand bags. Now that K has left I'll put in my two pennyworth.
It appears the original issue was over the wordplay involving Bus & Bali and K was trying to make the point that an anagram can still be an anagram even if the words forming that anagram are not in the clue. Such an anagram being an indirect one.
There was comment about the 'unfairness' of an indirect anagram & I thought it was informative to learn what a master setter like Araucaria thought.I certainly didn't think it was zen pseudo babble or irrelevant at all.I learned how to 'spot' such an anagram from the indicator Araucaria quoted and it will help me in future.

K,
I have no wish to see you leave this site. Whether or not you do so is entirely up to you.

This spat is quite simply about you getting snotty when someone pointed out that the BUBALIS clue is not an anagram (indirect or otherwise).

Your posting (No14)isn't really an apology to Mistly rather a chance for you to further fudge the issue by telling us a third party's thoughts on indirect anagrams. You may as well have told us what plans you have for redecorating your house. Interesting,perhaps, but not relevant to the matter in hand.

Finally. You shouldn't take immediate offence like you did when Mistly said it wasn't an anagram. It just turns a difference of opinion into a personal attack. You must expect people to be a bit rude back.

hi Tony the clue
"Hartebeest taken by public transport round island resort."
has no inicators to suggest indirect(or direct)anagrams.

"Hartebeest taken by public transport maybe round island perhaps resort."
could indicate an anag of two indirect anagrams,although,resort, to mean re-sort is a bit iffy.
To guess a word for "Island" as part of an anagram instead of guessing a word for "Island Resort"as a word is quite a big ask.

Using Araucarias thoughts on indirect anagrams and 'Ximenean' clues is just confusing the matter - there are none here! and I had to re-read it to make sure that it was irrelvant.

I also think that K phrased his questions in an unpleasant and snidey way (have you stopped beating your wife yet?)
ie.
"I note what you say MISTLEY and ask you to tell me why the letters busbali cannot be anagrammed into Bubalis."
Of course they can,except they wern't.

"Could you also help by explaining why 'resort' is not an anagram indicator."
Of course it is,except when it's not

"Thank you- I'm always anxious to learn."

Both questions are self referential,and both don't apply in this case, i get the feeling that K is more than smart enough to know this.

Oh well! terry got in before me - and said it better.

I can't understand how the idea of an anagram of bus + bali was ever considered. Bubalis. Unless the 1st B is the B of bali and the 2nd the B of Bus there is no anagram of bali.

Hi Trevor
Thanks for your very reasoned remarks which are in stark contrast to some others.
I think this is where the problem may lie. It seems to be that it was unneccessary for Terry to wade into what was really a spat between K & Mistley.
It really was none of his business and to inflame matters by using very aggressive & insulting language seems to have resulted in making K decide that he wanted nothing more to do with the site.
Pity that K and Mistley couldn't have been left to resolve their differences without others jumping in with inflamatory comment. Mores the pity that we have lost an experienced (and in the short time here) popular contributor.
I wonder what Mistley thinks about it?

maybe, technically speaking, if you took 4 scrabble tiles, t i t s, for instance and juggled them around, maybe any combination tat you get back is, technically speaking, an anagram.
so arse is an anagram of arse
technically speaking?

Tony,
I should point out that it was me that first got involved with K and Mistley and as far as K was concerned he had said all that needed saying.
Only when i pointed this out to him on another thread did he come back and muddy the waters with the most insincere apology since... I don't know...since that time i said "Sorry Miss" in
Ipswich.
He is obviously very intelligent and will help a lot of people if he stays around.That sounds like a school report.

Tony,
There was no spat between K and Mistly. That would imply that both of them were having a go at each other. Mistly had the temerity to disagree with K so K had a hissy fit.

Trevor joined in to give a perfectly reasonable explanation of why Mistly was right. I joined in to (a) agree with M & T and (b)to ask another question about the same clue.

When K's belated and forced apology (see Mephisto thread) turned up it struck me as adding to the insulting earlier posting. I've already said above why I think that. OK, my language may be colourful but K must live a very sheltered life if it truly offends him.

Quite how it would be decided who has the right to chip in and who doesn't is beyond me. On this one we had K and Mistly,then K,M and trevor (which you seem to think is OK),then K,M,T & me (which you don't think is OK)then K,M,T,T2 and you(which of course is OK).
Perhaps you joined in because you thought I was out of order. I joined in because I thought K was out of order. Like I said before if K wants to lay on the snidey sarc I don't think he's got much cause for complaint if he gets a bad response.

re the undermentioned posting - and nobody picked up on the superfluous apostrophe.....
Happy spatting....
Chris
PS: Araucaria is my favourite compiler too...

Hi Mistley

Firstly can I apologise if I came over as rude and short with you.
Although I am not a fan of the Indirect Anagram & was a bit surprised at it's possible use by Araucaria I thought the best thing was to hear what the great man had to say.
He says that he has tried to move away from the strict 'Ximenean' clue setting and create a 'free for all' system (within reason of course). As to the use of the indirect anagram he feels that provided there is an indicator, along the lines of
'derived from', the it has a place in his puzzles.

My favourite setter bar none.