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orson

15th September 2018, 17:08
I've filled the grid with hardly any attention to the wordplay and what parts of the clues are swapped around; I just looked for the definitions and tried to fit answers in the grid wherever they would go. So I can give hints to answers but I cannot explain the clues much.

It's my loss as I haven't appreciated how cleverly the clues have been constructed. Also, I prefer puzzles where something is revealed at the end.
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sunray

15th September 2018, 17:18
Good to see your progress, Orson.
I just picked it up and am not finding it that easy.
I have about 4 answers so far.

Hint on 1a and 25a will move me a little forward.
1a. Former soldier tucking into a tea, finding something fishy (9)

25a. Litter ruined yellow-flowered plant (9)

Thanks.
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drxx

15th September 2018, 17:30
sunray - The letters of M O O N are dropped from any wordplays in the numbered clues (these letters can appear in any order).

For 25ac it's an anagram of 'litter' plus three of the dropped letters.

For 1ac the 3 letter abbrev for a 'former soldier' is inside 'a' + the usual 3 letters for 'tea' - there are two dropped letters
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sunray

15th September 2018, 17:37
Thanks drxx.
I just got 1a by trying to find A?CH????A.

And see that two letters are missing in wordplay.

Do the answers to non-numbered clues go wherever they fit?

For example for FULL clues:
The answer to first clue is an anagram but the def is in second clue.
The answer to second last FULL clue is 4 letter and fits where 26a is. The def is in the First Clue.

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drxx

15th September 2018, 17:47
That's right sunray but it only works that way for 'full' entries/clues (in other words all of the answers/wordplays are swapped directly across in this section).

For the others, only parts of the wordplays are swapped (but a 4 letter part can swap with a 1 letter part - depending on the lengths of each quarter - 1,2,3 or 4 letters).
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drxx

15th September 2018, 18:04
It's hard to explain - and I don't think the preamble helps, because it suggests that it's the entries that change - they don't, only the clues really change because the non-words are not entered in the grid.

How is it possible to work forwards to a complete grid in this way? How can we check the non-word's accuracy when there isn't a definition? And without entering the non-word answers there are no cross checking letters to help.

I worked it out the same way as orson - by definition only, and putting in the entries where they fitted. Then I went back and worked out the non-words (just to be sure). The puzzle doesn't really work for me, and I think the preamble is wilfully misleading.
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muraria

15th September 2018, 18:17
I agree, drxx, it's a shame that the puzzle is undermined by an unclear preamble and the fact that you don't really need to work out much of the wordplay to complete it.
Once I realised quite quickly that the letters of MOON were augmenting the wordplay of the 'unphased' numbered clues, there was enough to start filling in many of the 'phased'entries esp. the 12-letter ones. I did however enjoy and admire the wordplay and construction of the puzzle, but 'ex post' sadly.
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sunray

15th September 2018, 18:32
Thanks drxx.
I am still confused.
I thought I would get the numbered clues easily.
I did get 1a and 25a by sheer luck. Just added the right letters fro M O O N.
I think I have 30a. Sometimes IC is added to that word meaning the same.
20 a is a part anagram. No idea what the first three letters are for a dog.


In the 3rd Quarter, how to interpret the clue
Coin slots beginning to sound odd-ear trouble? (12)

An example may clear it up.
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drxx

15th September 2018, 18:35
Yes muraria, that's pretty much how I did it - the 12 letter answers are definitely the ones to go for, there are many more options with the 4 letter ones (until the non-words are found).
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malone

15th September 2018, 18:36
Sunray,in 20 A the first three letters give a very Scottish word for 'to restore order', the last six, from 'street' give a kind of dog. Put together it's a more specific dog.
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