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Gosh, that's quite explicit, no? I think that the instructions are intentionally oblique - that's part of the puzzle - but focusing on how you it's even possible to create a dodecagon, whilst obeying the first instruction in particular, is the key thing.

Yes, olivercardo, gosh indeed. Surprisingly few people here understand or respect the concept of subtlety.

The whole point of the Listener and similar puzzles is that they're more challenging than run-of-the-mill cryptics, and they repay the time spent solving them.

I have a completed dodecagon but some of the victims have bars through them! I suppose it's meant to be that way.

unclued - yes, I think that's exactly right!

Oh dear I have clearly offended by being too explicit. I had no idea that there were separate sub rules for this forum when discussing Listener puzzles as it seems any random examination of other threads reveals explicit answers to specific questions. I have lurked on the answerbank where it is more obvious that there is a strict code and so I have avoided posting there. Here I was seeking help but then managed to solve without so tried to assist another poster who was stuck on the endgame. I am very new to the Listener having only tried about a dozen and only completed three correctly so quite an amateur and not in the same league as others. Clearly too keen to "help" when occasionally successful. Many apologies and will try not to give too much away if I ever complete another. By the way was it sufficiently subtle for another poster to quote part of the message "4X 9Y" ? Just want to be clear on your rules as I was responding to that level of revelation assuming it was normal as my previous posts had been more in line with what some would prefer. Oh well it's only a flipping crossword and not a North Korean missile.

Alpaca, I don't do the Listener crossword so have no vested interest. The rules (unwritten) on this site seem to be more relaxed than on AB. Personally, I think this is a good thing - and the only posts I've seen here are from people who've got at least halfway through Listener and then can't get any further. A little bit of encouragement or a little nudge (or, horror of horrors) a little answer is NOT going to bring the world to an end.

Thanks for that Chips. Can't help but feel that an attempt to join in has been slapped down by a superior and knowing class wishing to admonish rather than educate. Olivercado "gosh"..... Unhelpful "oh gosh indeed" Anyway it's only a short step from GOSH to GSOH which hopefully we all share.

I think it's good that the (unwritten) rules are more relaxed here than on AnswerBank. I often lurk here hoping for nudge or hint that I know I won't get over there. I like both forums. As it turned out, I couldn't get anywhere with X and Y despite the hints.
I usually go to AB to read the discussion and see if the current Listener is considered an easy one, and therefore have a chance of completing it.