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tonyw

18th August 2012, 23:57
This morning a chef suggested that the expression "by hook or by crook" had been derived from the places in Ireland.My mother always told me that it was a shepherds term.
If you Google it the answers are very ambiguous .Does anybody have the real answer?
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mamya

19th August 2012, 00:02
Something dating back to the thirteen hundreds is unlikely to have a single derivative, each stands on it's own merits, language is organic and wonderful I feel.
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mamya

19th August 2012, 00:05
Only the first of the above suggestions stands up to scrutiny by virtue of the age of the phrase. The earliest references to hooks and crooks in this context date back to the 14th century - the first known being from John Gower's Confessio Amantis, 1390:

What with hepe [hook] and what with croke [crook] they [by false Witness and Perjury] make her maister ofte winne.

Gower didn't use the modern 'by hook or by crook' version of the phrase, but it is clear that he was using the reference to hooks and crooks in the same sense that we do now.
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tonyw

19th August 2012, 00:12
I thought that the expression meant ,by any means possible,which does not really explain that?I am subservient to your suggestion because I know no better.
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mamya

19th August 2012, 00:23

tonyw

19th August 2012, 00:28
I don't think that we will ever get a real answer then.The expression is well known but it's origin is lost in antiquity.
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mamya

19th August 2012, 00:30
Agree.
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