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Afew weeks ago there was some discussion about so-called ghost anagrams - anagrams which yse letters not actually given in the clue. This one from the "Royalty and Jubilee" thread, looks to me like a good example.

A muddled Mr Dwight not out (5)


The Joker gave the answer as REIGN. This is an anagram of REG (Dwight aka Elton John) and IN (not out).

It appears to be a themed crossword, so the absence of a definition in the clue is fair enough. Do people think that this sort of anagram is OK?

I don't. How is one supposed to get "Reg" from Mr Dwight?
I think it's one of those clues where you'd think of possible 5 letter words fitting the theme and then try and fit the wordplay to them.

I don't like them either.
I did know that Elton (Hercules) John was Reginald Dwight, but if you don't you're stumped. I think the letters to be anagrammed should be there in front of you.
If I write a clue I never use them.

rossim, isn't it the same with most questions. if you know the answers they are easy. if you don't they are tricky and sometimes impossible. reg dwight seems fair enough. a well known fact about elton john AND the only person with dwight for a surname I've ever heard of.

I'm against them in principle. The joy of a really good anagram is that the letters are there in plain view, ideally with an indicator that fits the sentence so perfectly that it doesn't even LOOK like an indicator. It's not a question of being easy or hard. I want the setter to have made an effort and I want to be tested accordingly. The clue in question is so clunky that hardly any thought seems to have gone into it.

sorry, I didn't make myself clear. as far as this quiz is concerned I wouldn't be bothered, dwight leads to elton john leads to reg. not brilliant but straight-forward. for a normal crossword I agree that ghost anagrams (I expect they have a posh name)are unfair and I don't like them.

"Ghost anagram" is a term I used, but it's more properly called an indirect anagram; I didn't know that when I started to grumble about its use here. A couple of weeks ago peterm posted an "official" condemnation of the beast, which made me feel a bit less curmudgeonly. Perhaps he'll do it again. I must say I still like "ghost" though.

Happy to. This is what I said on a recent-ish Peer Review thread:

A while ago, I was lucky enough to get "A Clue to Our Lives" courtesy of the Guardian. This is what it says about indirect anagrams:

“Indirect anagrams are forbidden. For example, ‘Graduate never ordered plant (7)’ for VERBENA is illegitimate as you have to first guess that graduate is BA before doing the anagram; but ‘east’ to put an E into an anagram is OK. Just”

Thanks, peterm. Righteousness marches on with its terrible swift sword. :]

Ximenes used to use them apparently...


http://cryptics.wikia.com/wiki/Indirect_anagram